Men Make Their Own Winter

[Don Schaeffer]

[Toad]

Don:

Because I am not knowledgable about poetry, I usually don't comment on your poems much - so take this with a grain of salt.

I think most of the poem is pretty good - but I don't care for the first paragraph(?) for 2 reasons.

The easy one first: I don't understand the description of entering through her nose and stroking her flesh (I have reread it a few times and not sure what you are saying here).

The more complex one: I don't care for God being cast as a "she". Not because I am sexist - but because it feels less original than a lot of your thoughts expressed in poetry. This particular gender-reversal is fairly common - although in the light of the rest of the poem, I can see why you use it. Your referral to "men" however sounds quite generic (i.e. mankind) so it weakens the male/female dichotomy a bit.

Personally, I am not comfortable with God being presented in terms of human sex typing at all - even though there is the traditional interpretation ("He", "Father", etc.). I am also at a loss to offer an alternate suggestion about what terms God should be described in. Sex typing seems somehow wrong though. God is traditionally described as male in the Old Testament - although I suspect much of this stems from the the original authors of the Testaments lacking a sufficiently rich frame of reference to describe God, and falling back on a model that would be understandable to the multitudes. I suspect that translating the original scriptures (sometimes iteratively) has also not helped in this regard.

I get into trouble when I speak about religion - so this will be my last post on this subject regardless of other responses.

I also get into trouble when I speak about poetry - so feel free to disregard all of this as the words of a Phillistine...

I hate to see an effort like this pass without comment though.

[Don Schaeffer]

God is not typed as a female. God has no gender in this poem (nor in my mind). God enters through the nose and strokes (like God ordered Moses to do) to bring forth water. ("She" in the second verse refers to the woman, not God) God and noses have a long history together. The soul is breathed into us and the old time mediums uses to describe the immortal stuff coming out through the nose. Anyway, thanks for the comment.

[Toad]

You see - I was right - I am not knowledgable about poetry...or religion apparently.

[Kombisaurus]

Don Schaeffer Wrote:God and noses have a long history together.

hmmm.. that's interesting Don.
I also didn't have a clue about the reason for your reference to the nose, and thought it was a bit odd when I first read it.
Now I have a bit of insight into why you included it and it seems completely appropriate (just perhaps a little obscure for people like me).

And for the record, I didn't get the impression at all that you were trying to portray God as a woman in this poem. But looking through it after reading Toad's post I can understand how it might be taken that way.

I'm also a complete philistine when it comes to both poetry and religion... So can only offer the very limited opinion of an "outsider looking in" in both areas. I do enjoy little obscure little tidbits of information such as how God and noses have a long history together though.

So lets talk about something I feel I can offer a partially-informed opinion on - the photo!
I like the fact you've coupled the poem with a winter photo, and while I like the composition and layout of the poem in relation to composition of the photo (especially the tree), I'm not sure if that is the best photo for the poem. You've got references to hillsides, mountains, and water in there, yet the photo is a flat streetscape. The reference to "men making their own winter ... with ash" does suit the photo really nicely, but it isn't quite enough to justify it I don't think. But definately on the right track.

Tell me Don... Do you write these poems and then go out to try to shoot something to "illustrate" the poem? Or do you take shots and then these photos inspire your poems? Or does inspiration for both happen at the same time? Or do you have a heap of poems and photos lying around, and every so often you find a pair that match up together?

Cheers
Adrian

[Don Schaeffer]

Well not a heap but some. I write about 3 poems a week sometimes more. Strange as it may seem, seeing this scene inspired the poem. Mostly, the last verse occurred to me initially. It's like a dream kind of connection--logic doesn't really play much of a role.

I don't really take these posters too seriously. Only one of them was ever puiblished.