What are your thoughts on......

[jericho]

photo critiquing for improvement or discussion purposes.

A lot of pictures are posted on here and sometimes I get the feeling that 99% of the time, we all just say... "nice photo"... "great shot"... I wouldn't be the least bit offended (and encourage it really...) if you said to me, I like the overall composition, however the color is too desaturated, or oversaturated, or its too far away for my liking... or cropped poorly, or the picture really has nothing to offer and is poorly taken - as long as you follow it up with some way to make it better.

Don't get me wrong, I love a positive feedback post, but what are people's thoughts on being more critical of other's work? Thats all part of the learning process... well, at least for my anyways. For the record... tear my pictures apart if you feel the need. I may not change a thing if I like the way it is, but more often than not, a fresh pair of critical eyes makes my next photo shoot that much better.

I belong to a few sites ie fredmiranda.com robgalbraith.com to name two. They are excellent sites for using the years of knowledge and expertise to make my stuff better (even in my own eyes!). That same resource is available here! and its much friendier to boot!

So, fair warning... if I say anything that offends anyone... that is not my intention, just my worthless, two-bit opinion about what I (in my limited photographic knowledge) might do differently. Just food for thought. So please don't be offended. I know I won't be if you offer harsh criticism.

Thoughts from anyone else??

[Toad]

Opinions vary on this one. On another forum that I used to visit, they had 2 forum sections - one was a gallery type section similar to the one we have here, and a separate section was provided for those wanting "real" critiques done on their stuff.

I think this is a good system. By posting in the "critiques" area, it is very clear that you want the extra good/bad feedback and can take it.

However, when there is only a critiques area, it discourages less confident photographers from contributing at all - which is a bad thing. I don't mind at all seeing photos from newbies etc. - they often show freshness and insights that are missing from the work of more "skilled" photographers - I also don't judge them by the same technical standards that I use to judge a pro's work. PhotoSig, for example, judges every contributor very harshly - you get points for critquing others' work and it shows in the attitude there. Must be an awful thing to be a inexperienced but enthusiastic photographer there. They probably crush a lot of spirits in the process.

Without 2 separate sections, one possibility is for the submitting photographer to state if he wants critiques done. Just my $.02.

[jericho]

I agree 100%

My vote is for two separate sections.

[EnglishBob]

Sounds like a good idea, I for one don't mind open season on anything I post, I need the input.

I occasionally will offer an opinion on changes to a picture.. a tighter crop etc, but I am wary to do so often as I wouldn't want to offend someone.... even if they deserve it!

[jericho]

My intent here is, I feel we are a pretty friendly group of people... not the kind that would rip on someone if they were a newbie.

I thought about it some more and don't feel we necessarily need two separate sections. Just the realization that if we post a photo on the gallery that we can expect, or should expect comments, occasionally from a critical perspective to allow that photo to potentially grow into something great! I think it would help newer photographers ... myself included.... develop a more critical eye for better compositions, lighting, exposure, etc etc. More of this taking place during the photo as opposed to post processing.

Many times I have posted a photo, thinking it was really nice and then had some very helpful comments posted, which I incorporated (ie cropping, dodging, burning, softening etc) and was exceptionally pleased with the results! Consequently, I am incorporating more of these "ideas" into my work before I post.

The difference between my pictures now and them 6 months ago is dramatic. All thanks to the helpful comments... sometimes of a harsh nature - but with good intentions, of fellow posters.

Jerry.

[pai]

from what i've seen so far, i trust the members of this forum to offer genuine, constructive advice rather than simply ripping a photo to shreds just to make themselves feel better.

so yes, there's definitely room for more critical analysis of what we post. though of course, with some of the pictures i've seen put up here, the only response i can muster is "Wow."

[adam]

I agree.
but unfortunately, most of the time, (if not all), I'm one who posts the useless comments which aren't constructive. I'll stop doing that, but can't help it if a picture is so nice I have to say wow

"Please criticise freely - I'm here to learn."

[Petographer]

I vote for 2 forums. Shared and critique.

[lschmekel]

As my wife is so fond of pointing out, I need all the help I can get! (and she isn't just limiting that to my photographic ability). I for one, don't mind input into how to improve my technique. Everyone has different opinions and I believe that most are truly intended as constructive criticism. But like everything else, take suggestions/opinions with a grain of salt. I don't think it's necessary for separate forums. Just post away and if you wish comments/critiques, then just ask. Plenty of people will oblige, I'm sure.

[Petographer]

On the other hand from what I already said, what Lars said may be just fine for this forum. We're such a tight knit little community that a separate forum might not be necessary.

[Toad]

Yes - the lack of anonyminity is the beauty of smaller forums - no question. The people that would criticize harshly without being constructive don't hang out in an environment that frowns on it and where most of the posters are well known.

I actually don't think that 2 separate forums are necessary here - I have not seen non-constructive criticism - mostly helpful suggestions (which the photographer can ignore if he/she chooses). I was just stating how it is handled some other places.

[shuttertalk]

Wow... looks like everyone's been busy during the time I've been away.

Thanks everyone for your feedback - really good to hear your thoughts - and anything that can help make shuttertalk a better place is always welcome.

I think in general, people post photos on for feedback and critique... so the onus is on us as a community to respond with some constructive criticism and feedback when photos are posted. Even with "nice photo" comments - it is great when you get one of those, but even better when the poster explains what makes it a nice photo.

I was thinking of segregating the showcase section by subject categories... but let me thing about it a bit more, and I'll cook up something. In the meantime, as most people here have said - if you're really after some feedback, indicate so when you post a photo up.


Now... to actually practice what I preach...

[gd]

I have been doing 2 courses for the last 5 weeks. To my eye, that makes me an expert on precisely zero.

I think though, that we all are here because we enjoy what we see, enjoy what we shoot and get to see how other people approach what we're trying to.

We come from a diverse background an are a tight knit (sounds of trumpets and flags waving).... community and we feel that we can post pictures and commentary freely.

I am increasing my commentary on pictures though, not to big note myself, but to say what I see and see if other people feel the same or opposite. Also, to help myself (and anyone thinking similar) I am saying what I think I see from a technique perspective which people can say "uuhh, no gd.. that's not how that was done..." or... "yeah, and then if you try THIS you get this type of outcome". For me, that's how I will improve.

So the next time you're reading my comments on your photos you may be able to see where i'm coming from. I may never have taken a photo like yours or be as good as the excellent stuff we have in here already, but I'd like to be. So I'll make comments or questions so I can learn from more experienced insights. People are more than welcome to do similar to my photos.

In all, I like this forum because I learn from it and contribute where I can and I think everybody here does exactly the same. We only need one forum I think. In future I'm going to preface any technical commentary or questions.. or photographic observations with the term "$0.02". Which has become known on this forum especially as "My Two Cents". When you see this, I'm being critical in a way that I think is constructive or informative.

How's that sound?

Or, we could develop a "Snooty" and a "Cool" forum thread so that those who want to crticise can stay in Snooty-Land... and the rest of us can stay in Cool-town. (did I just say Cool-town?)