Which Digital Video Camcorder?
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
We've had a few threads on video, but haven't really discussed brands and recommendations. I have a Sony Hi-8 camcorder but want to take the plunge into digital video. Anyone with opinions on lower-end mini-DV camcorders (priced under US$400)?
It seems that Sony, Canon, Panasonic and JVC are the biggest players. Are there any significant differences between brands? What about the software that comes with them, if any? And what's up with all the recording formats - Digital8, MiniDV, MiniDVD, etc ... ?
I don't need any fancy digital effects, but want basic control over white balance and exposure settings. Image stabilization is also a must - I've compared my Sony vids with and without, and the difference is remarkable.
Thoughts?
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
(This post was last modified: Mar 15, 2005, 11:35 by gd.)
Posts: 2,356
Threads: 349
Joined: Jun 2004
Reputation:
0
:x :x :x :x :x :x
I had a Sony Hi-8. Sold it on Evilbay for about £150.
Bought a JVC cheapo mini DV 500 lines! Image stabilised! Twisty LCD! Night shot! Snapshot!
Piece of cr*p. (Sorry)
Hi-8 was better. No doubt about it.
This thing STINKS.
Dont go there without £1000 :x :x :x :x :x
Cave canem
Posts: 9,731
Threads: 1,965
Joined: May 2004
Reputation:
6
I have an old JVC - basically one of the first minidv models to come out by JVC. It was good for its time, but seems like a dinosaur nowadays compared to the tiny ones out there. Pretty happy with it, but compared to my cousin's panasonic, quality seems a bit lacking.
Panasonics seem to be the cheapest these days, although If I were to buy again, I'd probably buy Canon or Sony... why? *shrug* coz of the brand...
Regarding formats - I guess try and look long term. MiniDV was pretty much a standard say about a year ago. Nowadays you got some that use memory cards as storage... that's what another cousin of mine got.
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Doing some research ... seems the biggest drawback to the low-end models is performance in low light. No surprise I guess ... If we stick an f/4 lens on a digital still camera, it's not going to do very well indoors without substantial additional lighting, and most of these camcorders get close to f/4 at the tele end of their zoom range.
Unfortunately I think Rufus might be right about the price point for good quality... but a bunch of new models came out recently, and I'm browsing the reviews.
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Posts: 790
Threads: 75
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Let me know what you get the scoop on Mitch. I am taking the mini dv plunge soon myself.
Jerry
Nos an modica tantum nostri somnium
"We are limited only by our imagination"
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Jer, you might want to browse around this site:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/
It's the most informative and objective one I've found so far.
Interestingly, JVC's recent low-end models were rated well for their low-light performance, but in the new models for 2005 they removed the noise reduction feature so now they are just "okay." Dumb!
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Good news and bad:
The good news is that I won't be spending $1,000 on a digital video camcorder.
The bad news is that I won't be getting a digital video camcorder.
From what I could tell, quality in the under-$500 category is just not there yet unless you're going to set up a bunch of video lights in your living room.
While these cams have lenses rated at f/1.8, the low-light performance is very poor. Autofocus is hit-or-miss, and the image itself is weak. They work very well in good light, but I'm not replacing my 60watt tungsten lamps with 150watt floods!
I played with Canon, JVC, Sony and Panasonic models. The $1200 (sale price!) Sony was quite nice. I would have like to have played with a Canon GL2 but there was not one available.
So I'm sticking with Hi-8 for the foreseeable future, and will get a video capture device to convert my tapes to digital on the computer.
( But NOT from Dazzle or Pinnacle! They have gotten horrible reviews! I've picked the Plextor PVR model, http://www.plextor.com/english/products/TV402U.htm, which will not only convert analog camcorder signals to digital on my computer, but will also function as a Tivo-like television recorder! With no subscription necessary! Whoo! )
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Posts: 2,356
Threads: 349
Joined: Jun 2004
Reputation:
0
Cave canem
(This post was last modified: Mar 29, 2005, 11:51 by mustang67.)
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
( For Jerry: )
If I did buy a lower-end DV camcorder, it would most likely be the Sony HC32. A friend of mine has this (he did a bit of research, too) and it's got decent overall functionality. Slightly higher priced than my original budget, but not too much over.
From what we've both seen and heard, Canon fares worst for low-light performance.
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Rufus Wrote:Now, I'm not one to say "I told you so" .........
Yes, but you're a dog!
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Posts: 2,356
Threads: 349
Joined: Jun 2004
Reputation:
0
True.
But, I'm a clever dog!!!
Sometimes.
Cave canem
Posts: 790
Threads: 75
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Thanks Mitch. I have been suffering the same dilemma as you. However, in my case I have no alternative to fall back on. I will look deeper into the HC32.
Drats!
I was hoping it would be easier than this......... I should have known better.
Nos an modica tantum nostri somnium
"We are limited only by our imagination"
Posts: 9,731
Threads: 1,965
Joined: May 2004
Reputation:
6
Hm... do the Hi-8's have firewire connectivity to transfer movies across to your PC?
Only problem I see is that being an analog format, the quality will degrade over time...
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
ST, no they do not have a firewire output (at least mine doesn't.) But with the ConvertX you can easily get them into the PC for editing, storage, burning to disc, etc.
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Posts: 9,731
Threads: 1,965
Joined: May 2004
Reputation:
6
Oooo, I just got some junk mail catalogues in the postbox... don't you just love looking at the electronics ones?
Anyway, they're advertising a new model for Panasonic MiniDV camcorder with 3CCDs, 10x optical zoom Leica Dicomar lens and 2.3 megapixel still shots (onto SD card), for $1499 (AUD). Sounds interesting! - I think it's the PV-GS150 model.
I haven't kept up with the camcorder scene, but when I was looking a couple of years ago, 3CCD models (especially Canon) were king, and cost about 10 grand each.
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
It has received good reviews and seems to be a relatively good value in the next pricing tier.
Personally, I'm not about to spend that kind of money though (US$600-700.) If (when!) the prices fall another 40% or so, then a 3CCD Panasonic is worth looking into. Another 2 years, maybe.
BTW, I don't think this model has analog input ports, so for someone interested in converting old tapes to mini-DV, they are out of luck.
And low-light performance (50 lux, or just under "normal" indoor illumination) remains so-so.
Size could also be a factor for some - this one actually looks like a camcorder, whereas the more compact models are wallet sized and more portable. Something to consider.
Big Panny GS150:
Little Sony HC32, the size of your hand:
My fat Sony Hi-8:
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
(This post was last modified: Mar 30, 2005, 05:51 by gd.)
Posts: 9,731
Threads: 1,965
Joined: May 2004
Reputation:
6
Which one do you prefer? Heheh... some like them big like DSLRs
Personally I prefer small and inconspicuous / portable.
Posts: 9,731
Threads: 1,965
Joined: May 2004
Reputation:
6
Hey Mitch, more info on the Panasonic GS150:
http://www.jakeludington.com/gadget_envy...gs150.html
I found it on one of our advertiser's sites.
Also a comparison between 1CCD and 3CCD cameras:
http://www.jakeludington.com/project_stu...otout.html
Posts: 2,356
Threads: 349
Joined: Jun 2004
Reputation:
0
And low-light performance (50 lux, or just under "normal" indoor illumination) remains so-so.
50 lux? Did you mean 50??? That's terrible!!
Cave canem
Posts: 95
Threads: 12
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation:
0
Hi Slej,
Sorry it took so long to write - I wrote something here a few days ago, but we had a blackout halfway through and I forgot to write back
I've played with a fair few video cameras - Sony, Panasonic, Canon and JVC, both single and triple chip, as well as Hi8. If all you are interested in is saving a few videos here and there of the kids, or maybe to send away clips to friends or relatives, the single chip cameras will do you fine. If you're at all interested in production work though, you'll need a 3CCD camera. It's comparible to the difference between say a Canon A80 (single chip) and the EOS-1Ds (triple chip) - yeah you can produce similar results on the A80, but the SLR shots will generally be better.
In terms of brands, I'd have to disagree with the stats. One of my mates back in the Eastern states does some professional underwater videography with a 3CCD Sony, while another mate has a single chip Panasonic. We tested them both out under very low light conditions, and the Panasonic came out way on top. In general, the Pansonic was also easier to use, and still had a decent picture quality (we agreed that it was better than a single chip Sony that we got our hands on, but they sort of thing is purely speculative - you may have a different opinion if you saw both at work). My mate is pretty annoyed that he has so much money invested in Sony - the replacement costs for a new camera/housing/lighting system would be horific.
Saying that, I think the best advice anyone can offer is to try them both out for yourself - get into somewhere like Hardly Normal (they generally have most normal cameras in stock) and have a play around. Ask if you can try it in a dark room and see for yourself.
Cheers,
Brad
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
- Albert Einstein
Posts: 1,716
Threads: 125
Joined: Aug 2004
Reputation:
0
Thanks for sharing the hands-on experience, Brad. I generally agree with you (and ST) that Panasonic seems to offer the best bang-for-the-buck.
The problem I've got is budgetary - originally I wanted something under US$300, then after looking at the available options I stretched my limit to $400 max. Still no viable option, in my opinion, though the little Sony comes closest to giving me what I want.
Sadly, I have a friend whose hubby works for Panasonic, but they can't get any discounts - even for themselves. She bought a Sony! And a Canon still camera!
_______________________________________
Everybody got to elevate from the norm!
Possibly Related Threads…
Thread / Author
Replies
Views
Last Post
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
|