[delb0y]

I love the idea of this picture, but aren't really sure how to make that vision a reality. So it's over to you experts :-)

The thing I love is there's the typical English farm, nestled in the Wye valley, and overlooking it is the ruin of a medieval castle, just standing there, minding its own affair, as having a medieval castle in your back yard is the most natural thing in the world.

So, I'm on the bike. All I have is an 18mm prime because I'm cycling 50 miles and wanting to carry as little as possible. But I'm happy to go back.

Anyway, above the farm and castle is just blue sky, and below them is just green fields. Nothing of interest. And anyway, if there was, it would just distract from the aforementioned vision. So I cut the blue and I cut the green.

I need to get the whole of the farm in otherwise the story doesn't work, but now the castle is so small that story becomes less obvious, and some folks might miss it altogether. In fact it doesn't work unless one zooms in on a big version of the image and really looks at the castle.

So what do I do? Help required!!

I could go back with a different lens and say to hell with getting in all of the farm, but then it's a different tale.

Any ideas?



Goodrich Castle by Derek Rutherford, on Flickr

[Fogey]

The first thing I'd say is to use your feet and get closer.

Don't forget, a panorama can be vertical as well as horizontal.  

If it were me, I'd set the camera at hyperfocal distance, lock the focus and using a 50mm lens, photograph however many overlapping  shots it takes to cover the farmhouse and buildings as well as the horizon, including the castle.  I do mean both horizontally as well as vertically.  This will mean the use of a tripod for accuracy.

Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with a dramatic sky.

Then stitch as a panorama.  I use the free Microsoft Image Composite Editor, (MICE), for this kind of work

Have you considered moving up to the castle and photographing the castle as the foreground with the nestling farmhouse as the background?
+

[MrB]

I need to get the whole of the farm in otherwise the story doesn't work, but now the castle is so small that story becomes less obvious, and some folks might miss it altogether. 

Derek, from this sentence I understand that you want the whole of the farm in the image but with the castle also bigger in the frame.

As far as I am aware, the only way to make the castle bigger (without going beyond the farm) is by using a smaller angle of view, which is achieved by using a longer focal length lens. However, if you shoot from the same place with a tele lens, the farm would not then fit into the frame, so you would need to move further back to get the farm in as before.

I have tried to illustrate this in the sketch below.  This is not to the scale of your real scene, but simply to illustrate the principle. It assumes the use of a kit zoom lens of 18-55mm focal length on an APS-C sensor camera. 

At 18mm the lens shows a wide angle of view, in which the castle occupies a small part of the field of view.  At 55mm the lens shows a narrow angle of view, so you would have to move back about three times as far from the farm as you were with the lens at 18mm.  As you can see, however, the castle now occupies a bigger part of the field of view. 

Cheers.
Philip

[EdMak]

Well worth keeping at it Derek. A lovely picture there.  (Definitely not this one}!   !Ed.

[delb0y]

Thanks guys.

It's an interesting conundrum.

If I walk closer (assuming I can - it's all private land) then I don't think I'd get all the farmhouse in. The 18mm is the widest lens I've got. But I do like the idea of using a longer focal length and stitching together a series of shots. There might be something there, especially if the sky was a bit more interesting.

Moving backwards is equally problematic as behind me, from where I took the original shot, is the River Wye, and associated trees growing along it's banks. That's not to say there wouldn't be a suitable viewpoint somewhere the other side of the river, where the narrow viewpoint / longer focal length example would work.

In both case I think I need to get back out to the area with my walking boots rather than my cycling shoes on. It'll be worth it because the whole area is beautiful.

The other thing is for me to hold onto the idea of the shot, but look for a different castle / back garden shot. There are quite a few castles along the border between Wales and England and the perfect shot might be lurking somewhere!

Cheers
Derek

[Fogey]

While I appreciate it's private land Derek, there's no harm in asking. The worse thing that can happen is they'll set the dog on you.

[MrB]

...If I walk closer (assuming I can - it's all private land) then I don't think I'd get all the farmhouse in. The 18mm is the widest lens I've got. But I do like the idea of using a longer focal length and stitching together a series of shots. There might be something there, especially if the sky was a bit more interesting...
Derek

Hello again, Derek.

Again, if your goal is to make the castle look bigger in the photo, unless someone has found a way of defying the laws of physics and geometry (referring in particular to the wide-angle diagram above), neither of these suggestions can work. 

If you move closer to the farm, a wider angle lens will be needed to give a wider field of view to fit all the farm in the frame, making the castle an even smaller part of the frame. Plus, by moving closer, it also seems likely that some of the farm buildings and trees would begin to block the view of the castle.

If you were to use a longer focal length to take several shots and stitch them together, that would be the equivalent of using a wide angle lens (you are simply adding several narrow angles to make one wide angle) - which would simply increase the field of view, again making the castle seem a small part of the image.

If you include a big sky in the image, that would give the visual effect of making the castle appear even smaller in the frame, as it would actually, of course, occupy a smaller proportion of the image along the vertical axis.

Cheers.
Philip

[delb0y]

Yep, I get that Philip. But if I was stitching photos together the castle would have a lot more pixels / quality than it has now, and thus I could print / display larger. At the moment zooming in on the castle isn't up to much.

[EnglishBob]

I've come back to this thread at least a half dozen times, can't really come up with anything to achieve what you want other than what you have already stated, more pixels and a bigger image!

Really getting a strong urge to make a trip home to blighty to travel and shoot.... I love it here in the states but really starting to hanker after some British countryside.

[MrB]

...if I was stitching photos together the castle would have a lot more pixels / quality than it has now, and thus I could print / display larger. At the moment zooming in on the castle isn't up to much.

That's a good point, Derek. 
If you made a similar image to that in Post #1 by stitching 4 or 5 shots, it would be possible to make a very finely detailed 50 inch wide print, with the castle at a reasonable size within it. However, if you are viewing the whole image on a TV/Monitor, more pixels will probably not make a visible difference - even a 50 inch 4k UHD screen only displays about 8 mega-pixels!  Although, as you have implied, more pixels in a stitched image will allow you to zoom in on the details.

Cheers.

Philip

[EdMak]

Take a telephoto shot, close a poss, of the castle. Could then clone this onto the general shot, use P/S Transform, with constrain, to give what you want, will be a high quality file, so should look better. Possibilities. ????? Ed.

[MrB]

Take a telephoto shot, close a  poss, of the castle.  Could then clone this onto  the general shot, use P/S  Transform, with constrain, to give what you want, will be a high quality file, so should look better.  Possibilities.  ????? Ed.

Sorry, Ed - the main possibility (or likely probability) is that the photo would not look right, in the relative size and perspective of the castle compared with the rest of the image.

Cheers.
Philip

[EdMak]

P/S can look after this I think, (Implies dubiety}! Scaling/size is very controllable. I did make castle slightly larger, proportionally, in the pic above.
Would like to have a go. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Good exercise. Cheers. Ed.

[EdMak]

See below, updated to show pic.

[EdMak]

Should have thought of this sooner. The file size is to large to post, 6.9 Mb. I merely bolted the memorial on, no selection.  The file size originally was 81Mb, as it was printed to 9x5 feet for a exhibition stand, years ago. Download it, open with your photo viewer, and zoom in. Derek's posted file is just under 1Mb. It will loose quality quickly, not so the memorial.  This using Derek's original file, would produce a satisfactory print.  Ed.

https://app.box.com/s/qcinnyb18sof3crwcs0exu8xmbb1uz8x

[maisie]

Good idea for photos, especially I like that colors are very saturated and buildings attract attention!