[Irma]

Our local Cafe gave me permision to decorate the place with my pictures, with the time the proyect grew up a bit and now there will be a little vernissage next Sunday at midday where I could show more of my work and even to have some prints to sell.

At the beginning when I talked with the owner I was so confident on doing it. With the time and when I started watching my pictures I was panicking, everything was wrong and ugly. I started buying my spyder to calibrate my monitor and try some prints at home, to find out what was the problem with the printer was a bit of learning and challenge, but I am happier with my latest results, and what a feeling when you see your digital images in paper!! We are sending out to print in the lab some bigger pictures too.

I bought wooden frames and I painted black, I have canson matting paper so the prints look good. Some of my prints are in canvas and I will give a try to aquarell and pastell art photopaper this afternoon.

My friend Swantje started working in the Cafe few weeks ago, and she encouraged me a lot to doing it... Thanks so much to her!

During this four days that my pictures have been in the Cafe, the comments have been positive... They seem to be very interested in my HDR work, specially the tractor picture I posted here time ago. For the prints for selling I was planing to include some of my post processed pictures, HDR and textures... Well... let's see... I will let you know next Sunday what happened...

Here are some pictures of the Cafe.

I still have more room to hang more pictures but I will do it the day before the vernissage.

[wulinka]

That's great news Irma!
I remember a lot of things you say, the spider, buying the frames, it has been a while that you have been working towards this, hasn't it?

From your pictures it looks like your work fits well into the place, how big is it?

I am curious about the prices you are planning to ask, after all the work (and material) you put in?
Back in New York I found it difficult to price my work so that people would still buy it, but also didn't want
to sell myself cheap.

Greetings, and good luck!!

Uli

[NT73]

The very best of fortune.

[Toad]

Fantastic Irma! Keep it up - you deserve it.

[Kombisaurus]

Great job Irma... good luck with the sales!

[matthew]

That's great news; the gallery ('cafe') looks terrific.

[shuttertalk]

Irma, congratulations! I must say that prints on the wall look absolutely fantastic! You must be so proud to see your photos hanging there...

[Irma]

Thanks so much... I am very happy to share with you this experience...

G used to say that my pictures are like my babies, and he might be right.

Uli,

The place is not so big at the moment, they are more or less under construction. I wish with the time this cafe becomes an Art Cafe, and more people of the neighbourhood get inspired and show their art too.

About the prices, I have a list of costs I have to consider like paper, ink, matting and so on. Yes, there is a lot of work when you do it yourself (matting framing), but the final price is way cheaper than if you give it to someone to do it. Something else I have to consider is that we are in the countryside, in the local Cafe, so my prices can't be so high as if they were sold in a gallery in Hamburg I think. I still don't know how much I will ask.

I will be delighted if someone buys one of my pictures, it would be great. My illusion with all this is more in the lines of people knowing what I do, what kind of pictures I take. I would love to be invited or requested to take pictures in their farms, to their tractors in the fields or to their cows or their pets. This is what I would really love to do.

[Wedding Shooter]

What a wonderful start Irma - it looks great.

[NT73]

Charge what you think they are worth and double it. If people like something enough they will pay the earth.
And your photo's are works of art.

[Toad]

About the prices, I have a list of costs I have to consider like paper, ink, matting and so on. Yes, there is a lot of work when you do it yourself (matting framing), but the final price is way cheaper than if you give it to someone to do it. Something else I have to consider is that we are in the countryside, in the local Cafe, so my prices can't be so high as if they were sold in a gallery in Hamburg I think. I still don't know how much I will ask.

I will be delighted if someone buys one of my pictures, it would be great.

There are a couple of schools of thought on pricing.

Unless you are limiting production (i.e. numbered prints), it is hard to charge too much because you can make as many as you want - and that reduces perceived value. I tried numbered prints - but I don't think that is worth it. It restricts the use of that photo for other things - books, calendars, cards, etc and doesn't really drive the price up that much.

The reproducability of photos will always make them cheaper than paintings. You need to add value when you sell them - nice frames and mattes - printing with rich inks on textured art papers really helps - you can call it a "giclee" then and increase its perceived value.

People appreciate what they pay more for, and you should not undervalue your work. On the other hand, you don't want to be stuck with a lot of leftover inventory. its a balancing act. If the place where you are displaying your work is not asking commission, you can reduce prices somewhat - most galleries ask 50% to 60% of the selling price as their commission, and you need to build that into your costs. I usually charge about $200 for a framed and matted 11x14 print as a rule of thumb. That is enough to make a decent profit on each one, and people think it is a reasonable price. Your experience may vary.

[wulinka]

that was my experience in New York, the stuff for $ 65 sold much better than ones for $35, however, they were also hung in different neighbourhoods.

I guess your village doesn't have so many neighbourhoods?

but I agree you should not underprice your images.
In Germany you can buy a book that gives a guideline on what a picture can be sold for,
I'll try to find the information for you!

Uli

[Irma]

Thanks Chris. I am very nervous, but I hope it is the start of more exhibitions...


You are very sweet NT, yes I will check the prices.
Thanks so much for your thoughts about my pictures...


Thanks so much Toad for your comment. I was thinking about giving them very much less from the price you say.

I have some prints in very cheap frames from ikea... with plexiglass probably you know them, but I painted black to keep all with some kind of formallity. I have my canvas pictures framed in black wooden frames but these are with glass, the frame is nice but more or less 2cm wide. All in all, the frames are clean but not so luxurious. People think that the pictures in ikea frames look good. I don't know if the plexiglass makes them look cheap.

Canvas and paper are the best quality I think. I will reconsider my prices.

Should I make a paper like recommendations about light conditions to keep the pictures well? I mean the box of the paper tells you not to expose your pictures to direct sunlight and not in humid places. I think the buyers also should know about the caring of the prints too. How do you handle this info for your clients?

Uli,

We just pasted a little poster prommoting the exhibition in the local supermarket!! Probably there will be people from other villages too.

Thanks for the info about the book.


As the things are going and what I have experience upto now....

I like very much the idea of printing at home...

As Matthew recommended, I am printing a small 4x6 print when I am in doubt about contrast or colors. It is great to have the chance to check the immediate result before you print bigger. Anyway the test print can be includded in the price.

I have used already the Hahnemüler FineArt photopaper for the prints and is beautiful. I have printed on the pastell paper and the texture is lovely and the colors are great. I will give a try to the acuarell paper too, but I expect they will be great prints.


bw pictures... I have realized that it has to do too much the way you post process your pictures to get this green hue in the print. I have printed pictures from lightroom post process with the option grayscale with and without checking the option in the printer for gray scale print and both came out with the green hue.

My best treatment so far is desaturating the image and working your colors in lab color mode, then checking the option in the printer to print grayscale. The treatment that gave me the best result so far is the Carr bw post processing. My best bw picture so far.

Lab colors in prints...

For those interested how lab colors behave in prints. I have treated with lab colors some pictures and change them back to RGB before printing and the colors are great. Those pictures really stand out beautifully from the rest of my pictures, the colors are so bright and vivid. People that have seen my display of prints in the table the first thing they say is "...but these ones are beautiful... the colors are great!!". I am very pleased working with lab colors.

Thanks so much everyone for your comments...

[wulinka]

Irma, here is the info on the book,
it will be in German, but I don't think that should be a problem.
I have seen last year's issue and I potentially found it helpful.

the info below is from a photographer in a mid-sized town who does lots of local work.

das buch, eher broschüre, heißt "bildhonorare 2008" (jedes jahr erscheint eine neue ausgabe, die man für ca €35 kaufen kann, samt einem dicken buch über bildagenturen und sonstige rechte, sehr informativ). es hat keine isbn, man kann es direkt bei der "mittelstandsgesellschaft foto-marketing (mfm)" bestellen: www.bvpa.org.
die preise sind eher hoch, finde sie aber realistisch, wenn man davon leben muß. ich kriege sie gerade so durchgesetzt als regional bekannte fotografin.


There must be similar things for other countries I am sure.
Maybe you want to get it and have a look!

Uli

[Irma]

Thanks Uli so much for the infor about the book. I will try to get it.

Well, about the presentation....

The presentation time finished and we had some people in the Cafe. Not so many as we all had wanted to have but the people that saw my pictures liked them. I was asked if I could do portraits of kids privately, as they saw Javi's portraits, and they took my card.

The good thing was that days before, when G knew about my plan with a box of prints to offer and giving prices to my pictures, he talked to me and he was a bit realistic. He suggested me to slow down my expectations about the selling but concentrate in my presentation and to show my pictures. After all, he said, we don't know what people, who don't have anything to do with photography, think about your work. I dedicated then to print and build up my presentation book. I didn't have any box with prints and just a list of prices to show only in case someone ask for prices.

The Cafe is expanding so there will be more walls for pictures to show. I know that at least my pictures will be there for about two months. I will be changing them with different topics, every now and then, so there will be something new to see for regular clients of the cafe.

Thanks so much for your support and advice to you all....

[wulinka]

I will go an see it when I'm back!!

uli

[Don Schaeffer]

My God Irma, you have come a long way! Congratulations.

[Irma]

Thanks Uli....

That would be a pleasure...

Thanks Don...

[Zig]

If anyone deserves success through hard work and a desire to improve themselves, it is you, Irma. Getting work in the public domain is both time-consuming, expensive...and one is making oneself vulnerable in a way. Your work has gone from strength to strength.
My only "criticism" would be that some of your better pieces would shine more if made larger.
Yes, doing any stage of the work oneself does reduce costs significantly: cutting one's own mattes/mounts is a great cost-cutter...and frequently some of the bought ones can be a little overcut.
Some kind of standardisation also cuts costs: I use all black frames for mono and ideally natural wood for colour; cream for mattes(colour), white for mono mattes; buying a "batch" of frames the same size can work out cheaper...it can also interest a potential client as they can then have "matching" artwork on their wall: if the mattes are a neutral colour, they would work with any interior decor too!
I wonder if you'd consider non-reflective glass? It's a bit more expensive(and brittle if you're cutting glass yourself) but it really does look professional: you might also wish to lighten (via gamma settings) your photographs before output to being framed: just by a little, but glass does take away a little bit of light from a photograph.
The wise consensus is "don't under-price your work"; what works at one place in the world, won't in another(hence the disparity in quotes from other forum members); I suppose the best guide would be to see what sort of prices there are in the gallery/viewing-space in which you wish to hang/sell your work, and pick a figure.
Oh yes, maybe try not to be led by "selling", as then you might judge your work for the wrong reasons. Clients may well want what is not "good"....I see all sorts of crummy wedding-shots, for instance, yet they keep the photographers' utilities bill's paid. In my(limited) experience, Keeping It Simple works well: strong lines and subject.
Also, remember the distance that most eyes will look at your work from: what appears a good photo on the screen will perhaps seem different when viewed from a metre or away.
Best of, Irma; I hope you continue to have every success.

[Irma]

Thanks so much Zig for your comment and advice. I really appreciate it and it has been very helpful.

You are right about the size of my pictures they look a bit small. I just tried a service on line and they did a good job. However, I find the paper a bit too thin. I will ask for some bw pictures and different paper. As long as I can't print myself bigger pictures I will need to do it out there. I also will go and visit a lab in a town around here, I'll see how they work.

I worked all my frames black but they are not the same because I bought them in different places, so the only constant is that they are black. All in all, I will give a new approach to the whole thing. I probably won't show so many pictures but I will print them bigger and use better frames and glass.

About the distance, you are so right... Some of what I thought they were my best pictures turned out not so nice in paper. Another thing I learned is that the final crop, is the matting. I felt so disappointed when I saw my compositions lost and that detail in the corner that made the picture was half crop by the printer or by the matting... Never thought about that before.

Thanks again...

[NT73]

That is interesting about the crop by professional printers. I had some free 6 x 4 's done (Snapfish...Hewlitt Packard group) and I also lost about 7-10% of the photo round the edges.
I then surrounded one with a white border and then a small black border, but when it came back it had lost both the black and the white border and also had been cropped a little.
The printers must have an auto edge finder. That I do not like. As mine were tests and also free it did not matter but if I was to pay for them, I would make a point of perfection or no money.
I am now going to try Photobox.

[Zig]

I'm still following this with much thought...it is maddening indeed when leaving crops to someone else.
My my way round this has been time-consuming, but the only way I can minimise the variables...as I don't intrinsically trust anyone else apart from me with mission-critical stuff: I decide on the final size, then process the image myself exactly to this size...but I include enough for a border too.
E.g; Let's say I'm wanting a final size of 7x5 inches; I pp the image but then increase canvas size. I then crop to exactly 300ppi: so that my final image is exactly(in this instance) 1500x2100 pixels INCLUDING the blank canvas/white border around it. I can then of course add author, title, etc; as text in CS2 and have this embedded in the final image.
Here are 2 examples: these are just prints that I don't intend yet to frame...IF I were to frame them, then I'd add some more blank space around the outside.
This way, the cropping process is far less dangerous...and the addition of text within CS2 looks quite professional.
nt: I regularly use Photobox...it's because of "automatic" problems like we've mentioned, that I decided to leave as least to chance as possible.
I've found Photobox to be good...but on 2 occasions when I needed it to be done mission-critically for 16x12 prints, they still cocked up: I had to repeatedly complain and they did not charge me for the fact that I ended up with 3 or 4 prints for the price of the original. I have to say, I've bene more impressed since.
Of course, their prices are competitive...so you might consider somewhere like Peak Imaging for more fine and intuitive(ie, human-controlled) work.

Anyway, back to my point: these as hard copy are for "promo" purposes; if I were having the final output framed, I'd add another 2 inches or so of "canvas" at the pp stage.