[noisynoodle]

They've just discontinued ALL their 35mm film lenses and the current lens lineup is virtually all DA lenses (won't work on full frame) with the exception of the new DFA 50mm and 100mm macro lenses and 3 FA* "Limiteds" at huge cost. The only new lenses on the Pentax "roadmap" are DA's (i.e APS-C sized image circle).....so it looks like they have NO plans for a very long time to go full-frame. Someone asked what users were meant to do if they wanted 35mm lenses for film and were told to buy the 3 limiteds or use 67 lenses (which are still in production) with an adaptor! What's worse is that the two main zooms that will be available now are the dreaded trashy 18-35 FAJ and it's equally trashy big brother the 70-300 FAJ. Plus all the good second hand lenses will shoot up even mor in price! I'm gutted

--NN

[slejhamer]

Interesting.

I am of the belief that APS-C size sensors will dominate the consumer digital SLR market for a long long time, so I think this makes sense for them.

[shuttertalk]

Wow... that is news indeed. Can you provide a source?

Gee, if Pentax are going all digital, their existing film users aren't going to be very happy...

I suppose that's the trend though - a lot of manufacturers are bringing out more affordable, albeit lower quality lenses for the entry level market.

[noisynoodle]

At the moment the info I have has come from another forum. The initial post came from a UK Pentax user who claims he has been told this by Pentax UK. Further posts discussing the issue seem to confirm this as many who have Pentax A, F and FA prime lenses on order at major retailers, (B&H for example) have received e-mails in the last few days cancelling their orders due to the lenses having been discontinued by Pentax.

I've e-mailed Pentax UK to see if they can confirm this and shed any light on future lens/DSLR development (though I hold out little hope of a sensible answer on the latter!).

If this does prove to be true then the current Pentax lens lineup consists of the following:

FAJ - can be used on film and digital (no aperture ring, nasty cheap plastic...ughhh!):
18-35mm F4-5.6
28-90mm F3.5-5.6
75-300mm F4-5.6

FA* (Limited) - can be used on film and digital (very nice but horrendously expensive)
31mm F1.8
43mm F1.9
77mm F1.8

DFA - optimised for digital, can be used on film (both high quality and very expensive)
50mm F2.8 Macro
100mm F2.8 Macro

DA - digital only, APS-C image circle
14mm F2.8
40mm F2.8
16-45mm F4
18-55 F3.5-5.6


The Pentax lens "roadmap" has only two more lenses in the next year, both DA so no use for film, and both zooms (50-500 F4-5.6 and 12-24 F4). There are no published plans for any other primes, nothing above 300mm, either zoom or prime and no plans for anything for full-frame 35mm to replace the discontinued lineup.

The only primes left in the lineup that can be used on a film, (or full frame digital) body are the two DFA macros and the three FA* Limited , all very expensive. The zooms for 35mm are nasty, low quality consumer zooms - not very desirable. As the roadmap only shows development of DA lenses for APS-C, that cobined with Penax withdrawal from the 35mmSLR market make me think there are no plans for any sensor larger than the existing one. The fact that Canon are still bringing out new full 35mm lenses and have not done much with their APS-C EFS lenses suggests that a larger sensor from them may not be that far away. If that's the case, Penax stand no chance of survival as what we'll be left with is a glorified P&S.

The other, and more pressing concern is that with such a small lineup of lenses (two of which aren't even on the market at the moment), I don't thinkthey're going to continue to attract new users.......especially considering the fact that the only 50mm lens they have is the F2.8 Macro at a horrendous £360 as opposed to the Canon 50mm f1.8 at a mere £70!

I await their resonse with trepidation......I may be the proud owner of a dying system of no value! Will update you if and when I hear something more definite.

--NN

[shuttertalk]

Oh don't forget the newly announced smc PENTAX DA 50mm-200mm F4-5.6 ED and the smc PENTAX-DA 12mm-24mm F4 ED AL [IF] too

Wow, now that you've illustrated the (proposed) lineup, it seems pretty pale in comparison to other systems like Canon and Nikon. Maybe this is where 3rd party lenses will step in...

[slejhamer]

The fact that Canon are still bringing out new full 35mm lenses and have not done much with their APS-C EFS lenses suggests that a larger sensor from them may not be that far away.

This is the common wisdom, but I don't think it's necessarily true. Canon has a MUCH larger 35mm film constituency to keep happy, and their flagship professional DSLR is full-frame. Pentax can differentiate themselves by being a strong player in the medium format arena while also being the "value" offering for consumers. Personally, I like the effective focal length magnification that comes from APS-C sensors.

The other, and more pressing concern is that with such a small lineup of lenses (two of which aren't even on the market at the moment), I don't think they're going to continue to attract new users.......

That is probably true. On the other hand, I'd guess that many - perhaps the majority of - consumers pay almost no attention to lens selection when they buy their camera. If the camera comes with a kit lens, then that's what they buy and never change. If not, they buy the cheapest plastic 28-80 lens on the shelf, and they tend to be satisfied. At best, they'll do some web research by going to epinions or photographyreview, but even if they buy a better lens they'll still buy only one. Not many think about upgrade paths and expandability.

Besides, there are some excellent full-size Sigma EX and Tamron XR offerings in Pentax mount.

Just my opinions.

[noisynoodle]

Hmm, don't know what happened this morning when I last replied, but for some reason it's not here. I still have concerns about this as I don't believe full frame 25mm is that far away, at least from some of the igger players, and Pentax's concentration on the DA lineup suggests they have no current plans in that direction as those lenses will be next to useless on 35mm. I also think hat with such an emphasis on "buying into a system" many potential new users will take one loo and say, quite rightly, "What system?". While there are a few decent offerings in Pentax mount from third parties, more and more of their newere lenses are not available for Pentax and those that are can be hard o get hold of (at least in the UK) as many retailers just don't stock the Pentax versions.

ST, regarding the two newly announced lenses....they are included in the list I gave - I just typed 50-500 by mistake when it should have been 50-200, and of course, both are DA lenses, so no good for 35mm.

Anyhow I had a reply from Pentax UK earlier today. As you know, I e-mailed them this morning to ask what's happening, whether any more 35mm lenses are planned and if there's a plan for an upgrade to the D and DS. Their reply said nothing about any upgrade path (they chose to ignore that particular question), but they did confirm what they said to you regarding discontinuation of 35mm lenses apart from the 3FAJs, FA*Limiteds and the DFA Macro 50 and 100mm. They say that as DSLRs are taking over from film Pentax are now concentrating all their efforts on design and production of new DA lenses, but were at pains to point out the availability of the FAJs for those still using film. They went on to say that it was always possible that Pentax may produce new FAJ and DFA lenses at some point in the future, but were very vague about it.

Doesn't sound good to me.....I think Pentax are banking on no-one producing a reasonably priced 35mm DSLR for a long time, hence their efforts being directed at DA lens development. Maybe they're right about that, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the main competition do it fairly quickly. After all they have a reputation for producing constant upgrades and there's not really much else they can do now apart from go to a larger sensor. If that happens, with the current state of the Pentax lens lineup and roadmap, then Pentax and we Pentax DSLR owners may well be "up the creek without a paddle".

Just my opinion

--NN

[shuttertalk]

Wow, thanks for clarifying NN...

That email from Pentax is interesting. I wonder whether "concentrating all their efforts on design and production of new DA lenses, but were at pains to point out the availability of the FAJs for those still using film" --- means that they will cease production altogether of the FAJ's or will still produce them (maybe in a limited quantity) but not bring out any new ones?

[noisynoodle]

It's hard to say what's happening with any certainty. Maybe they're hanging back on DFA lenses (ie 35mm image circle optimised for digital sensors that will also work on film bodies) because they really don't see any possibilty of full frame DSLRs from anyone for 3 or more years. Could be their reasoning is that APS-C is what's here now and that it will continue alongside full frame as a budget/beginner's option. If that's their thinking, then they may be intending to develop a good selection of DA's first to satisfy the current APS-C market, and continue them as a consumer level product, with development of DFA lenses to follow later when full frame starts to loom on the horizon. They could be reasoning that as the first flush of *istD buyers went mad for second hand lenses they are already catered for and that those will work OK when we do get to full frame, but there will be a new range of DFA's available too, and in the meantime the DA's are there for those who don't forsee any desire to go full frame. Keeping the FAJ's for cosumer level film users plus the Limiteds for the choosier types with big pockets may be a way of bridging the gap. The fact that they already have two DFAs on the market suggests that they perhaps see a need for digitally optimised 35mm lenses at some point, just that it's not urgent. Maybe they're playing a "wait and see" game...not committing to more full frame lenses until the full frame sensor is a reality? Its all very confusing, but I do still think that whatever the plan is, having such a small choice of lenses is a bad move when it comes to attracting new users.

--NN

[shuttertalk]

Hm... excuse me while I scrub the *ist DS off my shortlist....

[noisynoodle]

Now that's a perfect illustration of the problem By having a limited ange of DA only lenses available and not letting anyone know their intentions they will scare people away from Pentax. We'll end up with no cameras at all because Pentax will suddenly find they're not making enough out of the existing bodies due to limited take-up. If that happens we may see them ditch this part of themarket entirely, or produce something like the DS with DA lenses cheaply for the lowest point of the DSLR market and concentrate their mainefforts on the proposed 645MF body and lenses instead, with nothing in between. Big problem for me and amny others who want an upgrade that may well never come. The last thing I want to do is go over to Canon....it's almost anathema to me, but that may be where I ebnd up. (Don't know how I'll fund it though as my Pentax gear won't be worth much in p-ex!).

Hope I'm wrong as I love Pentax cameras/lenses and I really, really don't want to change