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Views vs replies
#1
I feel the need to ask members how often do they reply to posts that they view? Mainly in the photo posting forums. Take a look at these forums and the # of posts compared to the #'s viewed.

Critique Forum
Photo Showcase
Photo Snapshots

The rest of the forums might require more interest from the onlooker and might be more difficult to join in the conversations. I admit that I started this thread knowing that it is possibly a repeated topic. I for one believe I reply to at least 95% of the posts I read. I have no actual proof of that figure but I do look at my post count. Not that I think it is important to be the highest poster or second highest but it does tell me that a do a great deal of posting in most thread topics. Even if it is a "Nice" , "Way to go" or "Welcome to Shuttertalk". Just a little acknowledgment to show "yes, I was here and did in fact take a look". Don't we all like a little acknowledgment? I'm sure we do. I will also admit that one of the reasons I started this topic was because of the "acknowledgment I received on my Cezar & Budah Series. Thank you very much to the ones who did take the time. I was very proud of the work I have done on this particular shoot. I must say, not very often do my postings go unnoticed. Please everyone do not read this and feel like you should go back to those topics and make replies but just keep in mind to make an extra effort in the future to take the extra 5 seconds to post a smiley from the left of the page. It kind of just lets us know you were there.
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#2
Thanks for bringing this up, Peto...

I tend to agree on this, and I for one will be the first to say that while I read 99.99% of posts (It's my job!), I don't comment on all due to fear of "spamming" and also if I have no input. However, I always try to post something each visit to the forums, even if it's just a funny comment. I feel that if people take the trouble to post and get little or no replies, it's very disheartening. For someone who's new or trying to learn, it can be downright crushing.

I know not everyone has all the time in the world to spend on these forums as well - some of us have jobs, family, activities -- photography even *gasp*. However, I think I agree with what Colin put forward - if you've already taken the time to open up and read the thread, then just typing a little "acknowledgement" may take a little bit more time, but goes a long way to building the friendships and community that we already have going.

To facilitate this, there is a "quick post" box at the end of very topic which allows very rapid submission of comments.


I think if we want to foster a community spirit in these forums, then I have to say that community is built on communication, and communication (usually) on a two way conversation. In real life - I'm sure we appreciate the feeling of being affirmed when sharing our ideas our thoughts, even if it's just a "uhuh" or nod.

Another point - I think we all need to strike a balance as well regarding the amount of topic starting and replying that we do. I've been reading a book on "winning with people" recently, and one of the key learnings is that - if we want to build the respect / trust / friendship of others - the best way is to first take an interest in them. I think the same principle applies - if we want people to take notice of our threads, posts and pictures that we submit, let's make sure that we do a proportionate amount of posting and commenting on other people's conversations as well. On other forums I've seen people come in and just unload a whole bunch of photos continually, expecting everyone to critique on their photos, while doing very little in return. Such behaviour I feel is very taxing on others, and soon people lose respect for the individual.


Looking at it from a pragmatic point of view - I'm sure we all want these forums to grow. Why? Because more people means more ideas, more thoughts, more experiences, more conversations, and more interesting things to read and participate in. But we can't expect this to happen if (1) people aren't actively acknowledged or made to feel welcome, (2) content/subject matter is lacking because people don't put in their 2c worth, or (3) people think that it's not worth the effort to post or start a conversation because they know they'll get little or no replies in return. Bit of a chicken and egg thing, but I think once the growth starts gaining momentum, it'll pay dividends for us all.


Anyway, I'm sure this is something we can all work together and encourage each other towards, for the benefit of all. I'd like to hear your thoughts as well on this, and any ideas on how we can all improve - particularly if there's anything I can do to facilitate or make things easier. Thanks again for all your support, Shuttertalkers!
#3
I guess for me it is the thinking of something interesting to say, that contributes- as you say Julian I guess I'm worried about spamming when I know people may be short of time to read it. But for the author of the post, I'm sure it makes a big difference.
I also often go back to a post a few times, to look at the photos again, or check out other peoples comments, so that might add up to the amount of views.
I think your right Julian, about balancing the amount of threads replied to and the amount of threads started, and I'll try to keep that in mind as well.
Canon 350D with Speedlight 580EX flash
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#4
Sometimes I'd start writing a reply, then when I'm halfway through start to think that it's not very helpful, so I close the window. Next time I'll try leave an "Adam was here 2006 Wink" hehehe
#5
adam Wrote:Next time I'll try leave an "Adam was here 2006 Wink" hehehe

Great idea. Big Grin
Sit, stay, ok, hold it! Awww, no drooling! :O
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#6
Fo rme it's about time, in the time I can post a one or two word comment I can of hit the back buton and clicked into the next topic.

In the last year the demands on my time have quadrupled. Sad
#7
Hmm. Its a good question. I think people tend to respond to photos that match their own interests, or photographic style, and tend to ignore or wait for others to comment on photos that don't match their own worldview.

I took a look at my own responses to see if this was the case. I find that I tend to respond to photos that meet one of the folloowing criteria:

1. Arty shots
2. Photos by people I have known online for a long time
3. Newbies that I think have talent that I am trying to encourage.

I also find that I don't tend to respond much to really good photos that are of subjects that I don't typically do myself such as children and flowers. Sometimes I realize I am doing this, and make an effort to comment on one of these threads, but it doesn't come naturally.

So what's the point of this senseless ramble? I guess we need to extend ourselves and make an effort to give attaboys to people even if their stuff is not our specific cup of tea. The beauty of being involved in a small membershop website is that we don't need to put up with the anonymojus abuse that you might have to elsewhere, but with that comes a responsibilithy to be involved as a member.

I will try to do more "Toad was here" posts even if I don't have anything productive to say.

Best
Toad
#8
I'll put my hand up as one that looks with no comment (not all the time)............I just don't want to say, well done, great pic, good shot, etc when its all been said before. I quite often go to make a comment and start to type only to read that someone else has already said what I wanted to say. I then find myself looking for different ways to say the same thing. What I am getting at is that I don't tend to comment unless I can add something constructive and or I connect with the subject.

I take on board everyone’s comments!

As much as I don’t like getting zero comments on my pics I think I would rather that than a hollow well done..........or I was here!!!!!

Hope that makes sense......... :/ Big Grin
#9
A simple software hack would help. Change the forum software so that in order to view a picture you have to comment first... Big Grin

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I must admit I'm seeing this from a different angle. For me it's like this: Sometimes I'm too busy to look at Shuttertalk at all. After 10 or 12 hours of programming I don't even want to see a computer screen anymore. When I come back from a spell like this (i.e. on the weekend), there have been so many new threads that I really can't catch up. Sometimes I just have a look at the pictures to see if I missed a "masterpiece" or a picture that speaks to me. I comment on these but not on the other ones. I'm sure it would look rather funny if I just put a "nice shot" at the end of a two weeks thread that has already detailed opinions.

The other point I want to make is: How meaningful is it to have a "Nice shot" comment made just dutifully, or an "Adam was here"? In the first case, I'll never know if this is real or just, well, obligatory. In the second case, I know Adam has seen my picture but couldn't think of anything else to say. If we start commenting like this, just because we ought to, would it make a difference?

For me, there is also some information in the fact that I haven't got any comments on a picture. At least I know that my picture isn't speaking to the audience in this forum. I'd lose this information if making comments is forum policy.

Well, just my €0.02... Smile
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Reality is for wimps who can't face photoshop.
#10
G and I didn't comment about this before I read his comment... I agree about the "I was here" comment... I personally wouldn't like to have in one of my picture a comment like that... To me it would be more painful than not to have any comment... because if I don't have a comment I still have the idea that they didn't comment because they missed my picture, or what they wanted to say it was already said... Also by the views and comments relation I can see if my picture is not of the liking of the forum... and I think that is ok...

I know I haven't commented much lately, but it is because I am trying to recover from my frustration about Munich pictures, my pictures are just crap... and it was so disappointing... I was so enthusiastic about coming back with beautiful pictures, and I got not a single good one... The weather has somehow struck me a little at them moment, the landscape is sad, gray and too cold, and I don't have nice and interesting picture to post... I am working my macro photography with flowers I buy in the supermarket and I don't post them because I really don't want to spam the forum with macros of flowers...

That is why I haven't commented lately, as I regularly do ...
A work of art which did not begin in emotion is not art.
Paul Cezanne
#11
I visit everyday but rarely post anymore. For many reasons really, none of which are malicious.

What I have found is that it is/was always the same 3-4 people replying with comments. I have been around for a while and tried to make an effort to post in a manner consistent with Rob's (though I am more partial to artsy kid pics these days... Wink . However, its my own personal feeling that many on here only post comments to specific people. I can think of a dozen regular posters that have never commented on ANYTHING I have put up despite my many comments on their work. With that said, I too would rather have fewer comments than the ctrl copy "Nice pic" response. Perhaps I have answered my own response with that last statement.

That is not meant to sound whiny, it simply is what it is. For that reason I love to come here and assume the position of "fly on the wall".

In the last few years I have seen an amazing improvement in photographic skill. With that said.... Keep posting those pictures folks!
Nos an modica tantum nostri somnium
"We are limited only by our imagination"
#12
I'd like to reply again here to the "no time" issue. What I do when I find myself pressed for time is instead of reading through all the posts without comment I'll only look at a couple posts with comment then come back to the others later. I don't find a need to look at all the new posts right away but just a couple at a time if time is an issue. 5:00 am before I leave for work is an example. No time to sit and reply or even read all. Maybe just 1 thread. Also, I need to ask those people who's threads I have personally replied to if they in fact do not want for me to reply to their posts anymore with a "well done" or "nice shot" post anymore? Kind of sounds to me like people would rather me make a longer more meaningful post or post nothing. Think about it. Take a sunset or sunrise shot. Flower photos are another. Man oh man we've all seen a million. Should we stop saying "very nice" anymore? Is it empty or meaningless to say so? I'll also add to the rant that the "I was here" example of a reply is just a figure of speech that wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It only meant to make some kind of comment or at least an effort. If I wanted to post images of photos to have 75 people look at it to only have 2-3 comment on it I would post them at P.O.T.N. where they have on average 900 plus active members on-line at any given time. Furthermore, Jerry's reason for being a fly on the wall seems to reflect my point exactly. I hope I am not being hypocritical to jerries post by starting this thread meaning I'm one of the people he refers to. If so then guilty I guess but along with Don's images I do make an effort to post as much as I can.

If anyone here thinks of my ranting post here to be more whining than it's Worth than please say so. Feedback and criticism is something I can take.
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#13
Colin,

You are the last person to whom I would direct any criticism. In fact, I couldn't think of a better mod, forum member, and fellow canuck. Rob is 2nd by a miniscule amount.... though the order changes daily... Big Grin For what it is worth, your posts are always very thoughtful and consistently helpful.

My post was not directed at anyone in particular. Recognition is something we all seek. The interesting aspect of photography however, is that the end product - the picture - is only one peice of the whole. Some of my favourites are not necessarily the sharpest ones, the most compositionally correct, or even especially interesting to anyone else. The reason they are my favourites is because of the story they are a part of. Maybe you climbed a 1000 feet to snap that macro or have tried a dozen times over a two week period to catch the right facial expression.

With that said, we post because we hope that somehow, "the picture" will reflect more than just a photo. That it will somehow, capture the emotion, the feeling or even the experience of being there.

Either that or I have missed my dose of medicine again.... Big Grin

For me, its finding the balance between posting those things that are great in my eyes vis a vis just another photo. Both are acceptable, but it seems more difficult to digest when you try to post the good stuff and it goes unnoticed after 75 views.

I am definitely able to take criticism. I don't have to apply it, but I certainly welcome it. The flip side... is that if you ask for it, be prepared to make some changes. People take the time to be helpful. The least we can do if we ask for it is repost with the changes you fell will make the photo better. We will all become better photographers as a result.

Off topic perhaps, but its all part of the discussion.

Two posts in a day for me!! What the heck is going on?
Nos an modica tantum nostri somnium
"We are limited only by our imagination"
#14
hi

I always try to reply to replies or comments so sometimes I look a post a few times to see what other poeple are saying.

I totally agree with some of the comments that all you have done, such as i will post a comment on some of the photos that i think are really good or just need a liitle or thisorthat.

I Ihave not posted a lot of photos as my monitor still not 20% ok and recently i posted a photos and then realise that it was horroble with the help of julian.

I also would like to point out that the issue of posting comments is been raise previously but I do not remember the post where was mention. But it went something like this..i comment to photographs but no one likes to comment on my photographs, what's wrong?

amyway...that's my 1c

byeeeeeeee

christyian
#15
Colin, I don't have any problem with a "nice shot" or "well done" when it's meant like this. I've got quite a few "very nice" comments from you, and I'm proud of every single one. I would have a problem if these comments were made just because it's forum policy, not because the commenter actually likes the picture.

I do not expect in-depth comments from everyone who looks at a picture. I know this takes a lot of time (well it does for me, anyway). Even with the relatively small amount of posts here, it would be impossible for me to do that, so I don't expect it from others.

About the "no-time" issue: For me it is one. Maybe I'm not very organized... Smile My problem is mainly that I can't see "unread articles" like, for example, in a news browser. If I visit here and comment on one post, and come back later, I just see "posts since last visit" but not the posts that had been there earlier already. With an "unread posts" feature it would be much easier to catch up...

One last thing: I think it's a good thing to have a discussion like this. I feel quite comfortable with this thread. Smile
Gallery/ Flickr Photo Stream

Reality is for wimps who can't face photoshop.
#16
Petographer Wrote:Also, I need to ask those people who's threads I have personally replied to if they in fact do not want for me to reply to their posts anymore with a "well done" or "nice shot" post anymore? Kind of sounds to me like people would rather me make a longer more meaningful post or post nothing. Think about it. Take a sunset or sunrise shot. Flower photos are another. Man oh man we've all seen a million. Should we stop saying "very nice" anymore? Is it empty or meaningless to say so? I'll also add to the rant that the "I was here" example of a reply is just a figure of speech that wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It only meant to make some kind of comment or at least an effort.

Sorry, but I thought that the idea of the comment "I was here" (literally written like so) was serious... Sorry... That is good that you cleared this up I had a wrong idea...

You are perfectly right when you say that we have seen a lot of sunsets, sunrise and flowers and sometimes the only thing that comes to your mind when you see these pictures is "Wonderful... " "Lovely... " "nice shot" or "well done"... and I personally appreciate and thank those comments... as much as I appreciate and thank detailed comments when I receive advice to improve my pictures... I personally ask you not to stop posting these kind of comments on my pictures...

And yes, it is kind of disappointment and frustration when you see that you have only two comments from 55 views in your pictures... as it happened to me with my last pictures in the showcase forum... I posted those there because despite they were not perfect, they have some kind of work... at least I worked a lot in the post processing and they have some composition... I never saw them as snapshot or at least that was not my intention, and I never thought they were pictures that they didn't deserve a "Well done, Irma" "nice shots" or whatever from the forum...
A work of art which did not begin in emotion is not art.
Paul Cezanne
#17
Humn, I must admit, that I honestly don't reply to every thread I visit. It's like I usually reply in the Photo Showcase or Critique threads, when the shots are really nice and I have something to say. But if it's a lens talk or something more complicated (sometimes I have to use dictionary to understand all you write. Big Grin) talk, I usually read it through and try to understand, but I don't think I can up with something smart and useful about lenses (I don't feel myself secured in lenses aspect, because I don't have to deal with them yet Smile).
#18
I don't reply to every thread that I view, and this is due to many reasons.

Sometimes I might just quickly browse a couple of photos while I'm waiting on hold on the phone or have a quick minute at work... I enjoy to look and usually intend to re-visit and comment later, but don't have time to comment at the time (and invariably don't re-visit later and comment on all the shots I viewed).

I also feel that if I take the time to comment then I should try to be more helpful than just to say "nice one", so I end up spending a fair bit of time on each of my comments (like this one).
I have nothing at all against these little "nice one" comments and always happy to receive them, its just that I have a really bad habit of not being able to write a short email (or post) myself, so I have trouble writing them. I'm sure most of you notice than I probably don't post the most number of posts, but they are usually quite long.

I also gravitate towards topics and shots that I'm interested in myself. Partly because I think my comments will be more likely to be useful, but partly to stay "in my comfort zone" I guess. I do try to balance this at times by seeking out and commenting in threads I might not normally comment in, and I do this to try to give those people some feedback (especially newbies) and to broaden my own mind and try to see things through other people's eyes. But I'm not very methodical about how I spread my posts among users, so I have no idea how evenly I do it.

So what's my point? Well.. I don't think we should all agree that there is only one good way to reply to a post. I like the idea that we all take a bit of a different approach to commenting. I like that different people work and think differently, and I think that's something to be taken advantage of rather than eliminated.

At the end of the day though, I'd much rather genuine and thoughtful comments than a heap of forced or obligitory ones... positive or negative, large or small.
All anybody can ask is that we try to put as much into this forum as we get out of it... and do it in our own way. There's nothing to say we all have to do it in the same way.

Now if we could all just find more time in our lives to view AND write more comments here... that would be great Smile
Adrian Broughton
My Website: www.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
My Blog: blog.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
You can also visit me on Facebook!
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Einstein.
#19
Thanks for some positive outlook on this issue all. On a couple more points I'd like to make...

Guerito, I know what you mean by leaving and then coming back only to find the posts since last visit gone. I will then go to the bottom of the forums page where it shows the 20 last recent topics.

I totally understand that not everyone is going to reply to every thread. It just simply will never happen no matter what. I suppose my whole point is that there can be a better effort made to make replies to posts. As Irma said it is disheartening when you do not even get a comment of two words. I posted a 4 thread series. Each with 4 images. Only the first getting half decent recognition. I was in fact disappointed. If one of the series had went unnoticed I could understand but when 3 out of 4 get only 2 members reply I have to wonder why. I'm not the only person here that experiences this. Don Schaeffer does on a daily basis but he does in fact post a large amount every day. I do not reply to all his images but from the 4,5, or six images he posts daily I will reply to 1 or 2 to show him that I see. "Good shot" or "well done" may not always be a suitable reply especially if you really do not share the same artistic values as the next photographer. Don and myself have two very different views, photographic techniques, likes, and dislikes. But that is not to say I can't make a reply without sounding negative.
For instance, in Don's latest post with the Bison it wasn't a kind of image that interests me but I made the effort to ask him about how he might go about bringing out the lost detail in the 2 bison which was under shadow. So see, there are ways to replying to images that may not always be of your taste.

Now for a confession. Adrian mentioned how he writes lengthy posts. I am guilty of not reading them because of that. I am not a big reader. Sometimes I'll simply move on to the replies in that thread or just comment on the images posted. Sorry Adrian. It is my loss as I won't know what the story is behind the image.
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#20
Petographer Wrote:Now for a confession. Adrian mentioned how he writes lengthy posts. I am guilty of not reading them because of that. I am not a big reader. Sometimes I'll simply move on to the replies in that thread or just comment on the images posted. Sorry Adrian. It is my loss as I won't know what the story is behind the image.

hehe.. Believe me Peto you aren't the first or last person to do that, and you shouldn't feel bad about it.
I know my posts are long... too long in fact. And believe it or not I usually chop them down before posting! Rolleyes

But... I have had other people comment that they enjoy reading the story behind photos that people post here, and so on (and I enjoy reading the comments of others)... so I include it.

Maybe I should include a dot-point summary at the bottom of my posts? Big Grin Big Grin
Adrian Broughton
My Website: www.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
My Blog: blog.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
You can also visit me on Facebook!
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Einstein.
#21
Kombisaurus Wrote:Maybe I should include a dot-point summary at the bottom of my posts? Big Grin Big Grin

Hey, if you like to type then... Big Grin
Sit, stay, ok, hold it! Awww, no drooling! :O
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#22
I hope that being a total beginner is sufficient excuse for me not answering to a whole lot of posts.

I want to say though HOW much I appreciate the answers I have been getting to my - numerous, and granted, sometimes weird - questions.
With all that input I am working towards becoming an "answerer", and hope that in the future my input will be of help to others like yours is to me now! !!

And I adore how some people take their time for lengthy posts, I always find them interesting.

One thing I have been noticing in the user galleries though is that there isn't a cultur of rating pictures at all. a lot of great pictures, though viewed a lot, never get a vote. why is that?
that kind of also means that you have to put your picture up in a thread to get any response and people feel obliged to say more than just "nice shot", or "2 on an scale from 1-5". Now rating really doesn't take any time when you're browsing through albums anyway, and there IS a lot of viewing,
so why don't we do it?

uli was here 2006......
#23
Irma Wrote:I know I haven't commented much lately, but it is because I am trying to recover from my frustration about Munich pictures, my pictures are just crap... and it was so disappointing... I was so enthusiastic about coming back with beautiful pictures, and I got not a single good one...

I hear what you are saying - I felt the same way when I came back from California last summer - I had a half a dozen decent shots - but not many when you consider that I took maybe 200 photos. For what its worth, I feel that some of your recent fog photos are outstanding.

~~~~~~~~~~

I am on the road so much lately (only 2 weeks at home since mid November) that I am not taking many shots and mostly reading the forum late at night in some hotel room - my comments get spread pretty thin as a result. Not taking as many pictures as I would like these days, I tend to post very few as a result.

When I do post some and get way fewer comments than views, my belief is that the general readership is indifferent to the shots. May not be true, but that is what it seems like. I suspect that many others feel the same way. So what is the answer? There have been MANY discusions in the past about the "nice photo" comment as opposed to something more real and possibly more critical. Some of these discussions have turned kind of nasty - some of you probably remember of what I speak.

I suppose that making additional effort to respond to any photo published in "Critiques" is one answer. I don't tend to post in "Critiques" so it isn't ideal from my perspective.

I guess the real answer is for me to post better photos. I do see that when a thread of really outstanding photos turns up, it tends to get responses. Not sure how I can accomplish that though - other than the obvious "take more photos" advice.
#24
hi

some very good points there everyone

on the point that uli makes about
Quote:obliged to say more than just "nice shot", or "2 on an scale from 1-5".
thats an excellent idea!!!

why we do not implement an points star system. if you do not want ot leave a comment fine.....but maybe at the botton of the origianl post should have a little marks that you press and you can vote 2, 3,4, 5, 6, 7 or how many start you considere is worth that photo.

christian
#25
Uli, I don't know what to tell you about the gallery and it's ratings. I don't use it very much and usually just upload images for a post. I just don't feel the need to put my images in a gallery anymore. I have 3 online galleries thast haven't had an image uploaded in maybe a year. I find my own personal website to be the more important thing to keep up to date. Which I don't :/ .
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