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raw conversion
#1

I recently upgraded to a 5D, which I am very happy with in terms of handling and I love the new width of frame with my lenses Smile .

However, I am encountering some problems during the raw conversion using Photoshop CSII and Adobe Camera Raw. The pictures look fine when I browse them in Faststone viewer, my standard picture browser which some of you know I think.

But when I open them in ACR, certain colors seem oversaturated (yellow, blue, sometimes red), so there are thick color blotches. It doesn't seem a global oversaturation and I cannot remove it by simple desaturation or changes in the color balance.

Also, the pictures take on a look as if the lower part of the RGB curve had already been raised to the limit, dark parts are brightened already.
I definitely don't have the same flexibility as I used to have with curve adjustments. Very quickly the pictures will look "overdone" .
The pics also look slightly soft, compared to the view in faststone, which I think is a consequence of the other two changes.

I set the camera settings to "standard" for picture style.
after I first saw this problem, I raised the contrast by one increment in the camera settings, but it didn't seem to have an effect.

I record sRBG.
I tried a few shots recorded in Adobe RGB, but that didn't make a difference either.

In ACR (Version 3.7) all settings are set to Image Settings / As Shot, and I set color noise reduction and sharpness to zero as well.
I work in 16bit until I save a Tiff file.


I took a couple of screenshots of what was going on, and when I pasted them into a new file in Photoshop I realized the effect appeared even more pronounced.
Makes me think it could be some setting in Photoshop about displaying colors.....? Or even my screen?

Actually, when I view my final tiff pictures in faststone viewer again, they look fine.
Unfortunately I cannot print anything to find out what they would look like.


I seem to have awkward computer issues lately, don't know if it's me...?

does anybody have any advise as to what to try? Who used the same combination of 5D and ACR?

I'll be really grateful for any help to solve this (slightly awkward) problem Smile

Uli
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#2

Hi Uli,

I noticed with my 5D files in Lightroom they always looked wrong compared to the DPP spftware provided by Canon. Than Adobe released the newer version of lightroom and it seem to be fixed. I don't know if that is helpful as they are both made by Adobe. Have you tried updating photoshop?

That said it sounds like a colour management issue. I am wondering if it something to do with what colour space you have set the camera to? Or perhaps what colour space Photoshop is working in.

All that said - I don't use anything except Neutral on the 5D. I use that setting with the contrast bumped up two notches and the saturation bumped up one notch. That works well for me. I also use sRGB through my entire work flow. Maybe try that.

Cheers,

Chris

Canon stuff.
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#3

Thanks Chris,

I did update the ACR plug-in to the newest version, but that did not make a significant change to what I saw before. Actually I feel like Adobe is trying to push people into buying CS3 as they stop updating plug-ins for "older" versions (how OLD is CS2?!)

Maybe I should try DPP again, though I'm reluctant to change my entire workflow.

Uli
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#4

A couple of quick thoughts:

If the version of ACR that you're using has a "Vibrance" control, try adjusting it as well as the saturation. Vibrance is a command that Adobe invented to control the more subtle colours and isn't supposed to allow any channels to clip, but it can have odd effects. You may also be able to turn the saturation down and still like the colours if the vibrance is turned up. Also have a look to see if there's a "fill light" slider; this increases the brightness of the shadow tones and may do some of what you describe. If you can get the conversion to a point that you like, try applying the same settings to the next few and consider creating a preset. I'm not a fan of the settings that ACR uses (via Lightroom, in my case) and have a number of different ones that I use depending on the camera or the look that I want to start with.

The colour space that your camera is set to makes no difference for the raw capture, but the colour space of Photoshop will change what you see. If it displays different colours than other applications this is probably at least part of the problem. I don't think Windows had global colour management abilities until fairly recently, so I'd suggest setting Photoshop to the larger Adobe RGB working space and calibrating according to it. I don't know enough about either program, but I suspect Windows would be sRGB, which could cause a great deal of difference with Photoshop in Adobe RGB, especially highly saturated colours.

I've heard that Adobe Camera Raw isn't one of the better converters, but it's just so convenient.

matthewpiers.com • @matthewpiers | robertsonphoto.blogspot.com | @thewsreviews • thewsreviews.com
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#5

Hey Uli,

Based on you saying that the same phenomonon happens when you open a screenshot in PS, then am I right in assuming it's not just happening to your 5D images, but to anything you open in PS?

If so, then it sounds like it might be a general colour-management issue and not related to the 5D.

Check the "Color Settings" in Photoshop (In Windows this is under the "Edit" menu, then "Color Settings"). Under "Working Spaces" the "RGB" setting should be "sRGB" or "Adobe RGB" in most situations. Also in the "Color Management Policies" I select "Preserve Embedded Profiles" for "RGB", "CMYK", and "Gray".

If those settings are already done and/or they don't make a difference, then I'd be looking at the colour profile of your monitor. You don't mention if you are using Windows or Mac, and if Windows then it varies between XP and Vista... but speaking from experience with Windows, if you picked the wrong monitor profile in your Windows Display Properties then it won't affect things in a lot of software (or general Windows use), but it will show up when using colour-managed apps like Photoshop. It may be that Fastone is either not colour-managed or that it simply doesn't use the default Windows colour-management options (ie you have to manually set your monitor profile within the software, which is how DPP works).

Sorry, I know I'm not being very clear with this... Colour management is a very confusing topic and the way it is implemented in Windows doesn't help the situation. If you use a Mac then I've probably just made it even more confusing because I'm sure they handle colour-management quite differently.

Good luck!

Adrian Broughton
My Website: www.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
My Blog: blog.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
You can also visit me on Facebook!
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Einstein.
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#6

Kombisaurus Wrote:... Colour management is a very confusing topic!
Smile I think that pretty much sums it up

Thank you guys very much for your tips! Unfortunately I don't seem to have a vibrance slider in ACR 3.7,
but Matthew, I agree, I got used to it so much and I like the flexibility it gives you in terms of color balance etc.
I actually tried to resort to DPP which I used initially when I started shooting raw, but the results didn't make me happy either. And it doesn't have a preview function for the changes you make, does it?

Kombi, I checked some of the points you mention, my Photoshop is all set to sRGB right now. As for Windows (I still use 2000, feel like a Dinosaur) I wouldn't even know where to start....

But actually, no, I don't have the same problems with ALL pictures, which makes it all the more confusing.....

So I'm working on it.

How do you like your lenses, Kombi?

Uli
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#7

Hey Uli,

DPP should preview all the changes you make as you make them. Although many people hate the workflow of DPP and it is a bit thin on features, it is generally accepted that it produces the best quality RAW conversion around.

Have you tried shooting JPG and opening them in DPP or ACR as if they were RAW? Maybe doing a factory reset of your 5D?

But ok then... going back to colour management in Windows 2000, try the following (this is all from memory, I'm using Vista now and it's all different so some details might not be exact).
1. Close or minimise all your programs so you just see the desktop.
2. Right click on a vacant part of the desktop and select "Properties".
3. Click on the last tab in the Properties window ("Display Settings" tab) and then click on the "Advanced Settings..." button.
4. Click on the "Color Management" tab, and you should be able to set the colour profile for your monitor.
5. If you have calibrated your monitor, then select the custom profile the calibration software created.
6. If you haven't calibrated your monitor, check the manufacturer's website because you can often download a generic profile specific to your model which is better than nothing.
7. If you still don't have any luck then just select "sRGB".
8. Apply your settings and close the windows... and you should be right to go!

Also it might be worth checking the hardware colour controls on your actual monitor itself. Some let you set them to sRGB or adjust the colour temp... generally speaking you want to use sRGB if you are using an sRGB colour profile in Windows, otherwise just go for a very neutral setting.

Again, good luck!

Oh yeah, I'm *loving* my lenses!
There is an international vetran's netball festival being held here in Perth all week. I've been offered a chance to do some shooting there, which sounds like a perfect chance to run my new 70-200 through its paces tomorrow! Apparently the festival is as much a social/cultural celebration as it is about sport, so I expect it to be very light-hearted and colourful with not much serious competition.

So.... tell us... how is your 5D!!! You must be loooving it?

Adrian Broughton
My Website: www.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
My Blog: blog.BroughtonPhoto.com.au
You can also visit me on Facebook!
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Einstein.
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#8

thanks kombi! I will have a look at my windows settings.

as for "preview", DPP doesn't let you toggle between the initial image settings and your changes, does it? somehow I do that a lot in ACR to evaluate the effect of the modifications I apply.

I've been thinking about the 70-200L for a long time, but now that I bought the cam it will be even longer just thinking. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your pics!

You know that the guy in the shop where I bought the 5D told me, some people don't like to use it on digital cameras and that you should be using only lenses marked "II" (as in MkII) that have the proper coating to be used on digital???? Granted, that guy I think was not an expert, but neither am I.

Is that really what the II in some lens names stands for? digital compatibility?

I love my new cam, should post some pics, just have been so busy.....
But at the same time I bought a gadgety little 50mm 1.4 which I put on the 350D, makes it a nice and easy to carry around cam and also produces lovely pictures.

when will you get your camera??

Uli
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#9

wow! I just set the monitor settings to using the sRGB profile, which meant reverting from a profile I created last year using a friends calibration system (a spider).... and it helps a LOT!

In retrospect I think of the problems I had when I was converting pics form adobeRGB into sRGB and I always thought they had a green tone, maybe that was the issue after all.

now there is just one more thing I wonder:

I shot a whole series of pics in sRGB just now, but do want to go back to adobe RGB I think.
so then do I have to change the monitor settings according to which set of pictures I am working on, i.e. which color space my Photoshop will be set to?
And Matthew, why did you say it made no difference to the files which space the cam is set to? If so, why do you set it at all on the cam and not just later in ACR?

Uli
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#10

I think what Matthew meant is that RAW images are not affected by colour space until you convert them to a jpeg, tiff, etc... You are capturing the RAW data from the sensor so you can apply what ever colour space you want when you do the conversion in software.

Calibration is something you need to do on a regular basis. If your spyder calibration was over a year old than that would mean it probably needed updating.

Canon stuff.
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#11

Uli, I'm glad to see you're able to sort out the problems you're having.

WS's right, what I meant was that the camera's capture colour space doesn't apply to raw images. They don't really have a colour space until they're converted, either by the camera's own jpeg engine or by the raw converter on your computer. The camera setting that you use will affect how the preview/review looks on the camera, and it may also affect the defaults or presets for your raw converter, but the raw file itself is unchanged.

matthewpiers.com • @matthewpiers | robertsonphoto.blogspot.com | @thewsreviews • thewsreviews.com
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#12

good, I didn't know color profiles get old.... learned something again!
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#13

It is actually the monitor getting old - they change as they age.

Canon stuff.
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#14

time for a new computer!!! (as if i hadn't known...)
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#15

iMac. Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

matthewpiers.com • @matthewpiers | robertsonphoto.blogspot.com | @thewsreviews • thewsreviews.com
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#16

iKnow....Smile
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