So, I have upset people again. Sorry.
But, to put things in perspective, may I say this. I dont like being ignored, but I do want critique from those who know what they mean, (which is nearly everyone here).
So, you think my picture stinks? Good. Say so. I'll live. I might learn too. Hey, that's half the point, is it not?
Do people gain from this forum? YES! Look at the growth rate. Does political correctness help any of us? No. No, it's a disease. The 21st century disease.
Damn it. This is why I moved churches. Why tell the Gospel truth when a lie is more comfy???? Some have.
My EX vicar actually told me, quite clearly, that he's preached a dodgy recurring theme simply to get attention.
I quit that church. I didnt go to be lied too. I went worship, to learn, share, have a laugh, and a chat with others.
So here. No worship, but the rest applies. I'm sure it does.
Yes. I'm sure it does.
So. If you see a pic of mine, and dont like it, dont pass it by. Tell me it stinks, if it does. Tell me why it stinks. I'll growl maybe, but I'll appreciate it.
Rant mode off.
True true... I think if someone goes to the trouble of uploading some of their work on to Shuttertalk, we should at least offer a comment, once in a while, however brief.
On the other side of the coin - not everyone has the time to read all the posts or comment on them - so I accept that as well.
But I must say this to everyone -- if you post your photos up and expect people to comment on them, I would expect you to do the same for other people's photos. Fair's fair. I hope you all agree on this...
If someone says my photo is bad, I can accept it. But if someone says I personally am stupid or off my rocker or that my judgements are not worth considering it gets me feeling really sad. That's just my nature.
I suggest we make a distinction between photo and person and keep our criticism on the photos.
Good idea Don. Thanks everyone.
Rufus
For me this has nothing to do with the issue of replying with feedback to photos posted but rather how you are being belligerent towards people on this forum. I am at the point where I am sick of reading your angry responses to peoples posts. If you can't say anything nice to people why say anything at all? I think Julian is much more tolerant and forgiving than I am. If it were my decisions you would have almost used up your warnings by now. Myself and at least one other member that I know of are sick of the man acting like a dog routine. I would hope you are an adult but your posting habits say otherwise. I do not feel like I should reply to your posting images simply because you threw a cyber temper tantrum. I do not expect responses to mine. If I get them then great. That is a bonus. Please do not try and guilt people into replying to your posts. You drive people a away. I do not get into flames in any forum and don't believe I've been in one here up till now but at this time it has me reconsidering my participation here.
I will put an ultimatum on the plate right now. Either you carry on as a grown man and contribute to this forum respectively, towards others without meaningless drivel or I leave. Bottom line.
Off topic:
I just realized where the title of this thread comes from:
"Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun..."
Noel Coward 1932
Also the name of a Joe Cocker tour / album / movie.
OK - back to the thread now...
I usually found Rufus' comments amusing. :/
I will put an ultimatum on the plate right now. Either you carry on as a grown man and contribute to this forum respectively, towards others without meaningless drivel or I leave. Bottom line.
Strange, especially coming from a "friend".........................
Very well.
Enjoy the forum, and enjoy your moderating power.
'Bye everyone.
Oh btw, (last post),
There is no dog called "Rufus". The dog that used to be the avatar is "MEZ", (yes, really).
Spelt MES, not MEZ, due to it's meaning, which I wont trouble you with.
I could say a lot more but why bother??
>>>>>
I've reconsidered.
The following is NOT something I've EVER done before:
Rufus / Laurence, a brief history.
For nearly 20 years, I've lived with a disabled person, (not anyone I've talked about).
I fought the medical profession when they claimed "incurable" and "hopeless",
I trained as a medical person, (no details, sorry), in order to fight from the inside. I also trained in Psychotherapy, nuero linguistics, counselling and hypnosis. In the UK, this is a tough path.
Did I want to mask my identity? You bet I did! I have people out there who have knocked on my door at all hours, day and night.
Did I want honest, light relief, yes.
Did I trouble anyone with the truth about myself? No.
Did I want sympathy? No.
Did I survive my ordeals? No. I had to quit when mega burn-out consumed me.
There you go. Moderate that.
Hey boys, can we be nice to each other again?
I wouldn't want Rufus to leave, I mostly enjoyed his posts very much even if they sometimes can't be considered "constructive criticism". I'd be missing the "dogs vs cats" wars as well. I do not think anybody has stepped too far over the line, either.
So... Why don't we all go out, shoot a few pictures and post them here? Can we? Please?
I am thinking that we should remember that there is a number of places to post pictures here.
"Photo Showcase"
Got a great photo? Showcase it here and let others talk about it! Please post a brief narrative as well, describing what the picture was trying to achive and how you went about doing so.
"Photo Critique".
Post your photo here if you want brutally honest, but constructive feedback on your work. Reviewers, feel free to not "mince" your words, but please be constructive.
"Fix Me Up! / Photoshop Playground"
Got a lacklustre image? Something that you think could be made more interesting? Post it here, and let the others illustrate their interpretation through post processing!
I guess we all need to go back and check where we are posting and the rules that should apply when posting pictures or commenting about pictures in each of the categories.
And lets all remember that we are all here to learn how to improve our techniques in all facets of photography.
Cheers.
Peted
I know I'm probably going to be accused of only writing this because Rufus is my husband, but I have to say this because it is my genuinely held view of what's been happening here.
Keeping quiet if you have nothing nice to say is a good policy - it's one I tend to follow, and one Rufus has followed in some cases for a long time. But when keeping quiet results in complaints from members that they are being ignored (as had happened more than once with some people) and those members will not accept criticism in any form other than praise the whole thing becomes nothing more than an exercise in political correctness - and to what end? No-one benefits. The poster may stay happily deluded that everyone likes his work, but will never progress because no-one feels able to point out where things could be improved.
When Rufus complained that one particular photo was being ignored it wasn't out of a demand for nice comments that meant nothing - he was genuinely interested to hear people's opinions and criticisms. A criticism, after all, should be something we can learn from whether that's because our critic says "Yep...I like that" or offers suggestions for improvement. Rufus' concern was that it appeared no-one was interested in offering a real criticism of the picture and that they were exercising the "don't say anything if you can't say something nice" protocol. He wanted to hear your criticisms.....he actually has a respect for the genuine opinions of other photographers, but a deep dislike for "pussyfooting" around and making only positive comment (especially when it has arisen out of complaints when the "don't say anyhing at all" protocol is employed).
Added to that I think that when anyone offers a criticism or provides a "better" version of someone else's post that should always be done within the context of what the photographer was trying to express. If someone posts a picture of a table in a kitchen with the main focus being on a bowl of fruit on the table and I come along and crop everything out apart from a doorknob in the background I'm not providing helpful criticism, simply saying that the original photographer took the "wrong" picture. So, while my style might be to do something like that I have to accept it's not the only way and view other's work in the light of what they are trying to say - my criticism then may help them better achieve what they set out for.
If I really don't "get" the photographer's perspective because it's radically different from my way of doing things then I will not comment as my criticism would be invalid - based purely on a subjective view of the work and not on the quality or otherwise of that work.
The bottom line here is that both Rufus and myself value honesty above all else and though we're both able to "say nothing at all" to avoid hurting feelings (within limits) neither of us can repeatedly say something nice just for the sake of it.
Perhaps it's partly grown from the state of things in this country where our government wants everyone to have a university degree and to that end has made examinations impossible to fail. All we end up with is a nation that thinks it's achieving something when in reality those that weren't able to reach university standards are no "brighter" than they were before, they just think they are because evryone tells them so. What follows from that is a decline in standards in everything as people who are not really fitted to the challenges that a profession offers are given the job anyway because we have to view everone as equal - in this world that simply is not true. Here, on a photography forum we have a microcosm of the same thing - if we all tell each other how "nice" our photo's are we'll all end up believing it - but none of us will learn anything, and it'll be a meaningless and pointless exercise.
--NN
Come on everyone, let's not let things get too out of hand here.
As Confuscious say - "War do not determine who right, war determine who left"... and also "He who jump off cliff jump to conclusion".
I just want to make clear that everyone here is a valued member and it would be a tragedy to see anyone's feelings hurt. Let's just all shake paws/hands, make up and get back to doing what we do best -- taking photos and Shuttertalking, eh?
And thanks everyone for your understanding and support here. NN especially, thanks for your very valid insights.
As I posted in a couple of other threads:
Quote:Guys, (and gals 
) please be sensitive to each others feelings, especially when they take the trouble to share some piccies for us to look at. We want to promote a place where people are encouraged to share, instead of discouraged due to overly harsh or critical comments. The last thing we want is for this place to turn into a PhotoSig. I know everyone has different tastes and art styles, so do be genuine too, but just do it with a pinch of grace (unless you're commenting in the Photo Critique forum).
Well said NN and Julian,
I only just noticed this thread and was quite surprised to read it.
It seems a real shame that an issue like this should bring both Peteographer and Rufus to the point where they feel the urge to leave.
I would hope that instead of focusing (pardon the pun) on isolated differences or misunderstandings between the two of them, they might see the overwhelming support and friendship given to both of them from ALL the regulars here, and realise they'd be giving that up if they left as well.
Personally I enjoy reading posts from BOTH of you (even if Rufus' humour is an aquired taste that I probably don't fully appreciate).
Guys... the glass is 9/10th full, not 1/10th empty.. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.. etc etc..
I hope common sense will prevail, even if it requires a cooling off period
