That's it really.
Just had to do the equivalent of going out of the room to scream.
It wears me down (and is, if anyone at all were interested, the reason for my long departures.)
I've tried to deal with it by being patient and ignoring it.
Indeed the only way I can not let it bother me is by removing myself to the vantage-point of the occasional lurk.
...I am very, very annoyed.
I feel the Showcase is being abused to the point that there is so much dead wood, it actually prevents the promotion of any excellence. It is becoming not so much a celebration of the best things of photography, as much as a soapbox of self-seeking points of view.
I would have expected a showcase to be as the word suggests, yet so often it is used as a way of dragging the viewer by the scruff of the neck to shout or moan a pseudo-didactic opinion in his/her face. This can result in people's good stuff getting choked out like weeds.
I'm not so daft or as in-your-face as not to realise that freedom to post means having freedom to suffer its less-palatable side...so I hope I am allowed that freedom to post here my concerns.
Though tempted to speak for others in addition myself, I'll not be so manipulative as to do so, or to "make someone have it in terms of ramming my idea down their throat", even though I see the showcase being daily abused in this way: I fully expect readers of this to either wade in on me with the flame-gun or to whistle and look the other way as Zig has a momentary paddy-fit.
Though I realise this will ruffle feathers, I'm really just making a plea. I just think an unweeded garden makes for an unhealthy and sickly show of plants, and is not fair on the hard work a "grower" puts in.
Suggestion - how about limiting members to one entry in the showcase a week :/
Zig Wrote:That's it really.
Just had to do the equivalent of going out of the room to scream.
It wears me down (and is, if anyone at all were interested, the reason for my long departures.)
I've tried to deal with it by being patient and ignoring it.
Indeed the only way I can not let it bother me is by removing myself to the vantage-point of the occasional lurk.
...I am very, very annoyed.
I feel the Showcase is being abused to the point that there is so much dead wood, it actually prevents the promotion of any excellence. It is becoming not so much a celebration of the best things of photography, as much as a soapbox of self-seeking points of view.
I would have expected a showcase to be as the word suggests, yet so often it is used as a way of dragging the viewer by the scruff of the neck to shout or moan a pseudo-didactic opinion in his/her face. This can result in people's good stuff getting choked out like weeds.
I'm not so daft or as in-your-face as not to realise that freedom to post means having freedom to suffer its less-palatable side...so I hope I am allowed that freedom to post here my concerns.
Though tempted to speak for others in addition myself, I'll not be so manipulative as to do so, or to "make someone have it in terms of ramming my idea down their throat", even though I see the showcase being daily abused in this way: I fully expect readers of this to either wade in on me with the flame-gun or to whistle and look the other way as Zig has a momentary paddy-fit.
Though I realise this will ruffle feathers, I'm really just making a plea. I just think an unweeded garden makes for an unhealthy and sickly show of plants, and is not fair on the hard work a "grower" puts in.
Go-go-go Zig - let it all hang out. ............ PMSL
Speaking for myself - I'm too old to bother looking for beauty in a turd so I just walk past it and carry on doing my own thing.
If a weed doesn't immediately strike me with at least some sort of instant beauty I yank it out, sling it and move on.
Polly
A few random thoughts, simply because I lack the time or coherence to do much better:
- the way to make people think that you're a brilliant photographer is to be a ruthless editor. Show only your very best, and let everyone assume you're always that good.
- 'best' and even 'good' are a question of personal taste, and aesthetic good taste is trained and learned. Perhaps this is the place to develop it.
- How often do photos in the showcase get negative/"needs improvement" feedback? Is the tendency to ignore the 'weeds' and fertilize the 'flowers' encouraging more weeds, flowers, or fertilizer?
- Personally, I don't look at many posts in the Showcase, preferring to concentrate on the Critique section. When time's really in short supply, as it has been recently, I can barely keep up with the assignments. (The assignment section seems to be where some of the most interesting photos are landing, anyway.
)
- Annoyance is a personal reaction, not an imposed one. It's a result of your own needs not being met. Figure out what they are, and how they can be satisfied, and you'll be ahead of most people.
I have been a complainer many a time. I appreciate the feeling but I don't understand what your problem is specifically. Are you saying there are too many postings on the showcase thread? Are the postings not good enough? Please be specific.
Yes Don, too many and sometimes not that good, many I think should just be in the fix me up or snaps forum. I think some posters are nowhere near critical of themselves. Naturally enough what you think is a great shot and what I think are a great shot may well be completely different.
Personally I try to limit myself to shots I really think are pretty good while others seem to put all their work there. This is of course pretty subjective but most of us could probably be a bit more critical of what we post. :/
How can we do that? I try to put my best shots up but many of them are mediocre anyway. I ask for some feedback. I don't want thorough critiques (as in the fix me up forum) mostly because I can't write too many critiques myself. But if you find my photos not up to standard, I want you to tell me.
I have to agree with Don on his last thread. I know here lately that i have been up to nothin but portraits , but does that make a " bad " photo? The only times i post on Showcase are the shots that i am PROUD of. Now they may not be up to eveyones standards but they are the ones that i like.
I try to use critiques on the shots that i need help on , The ones that i know arent worthy of " Showcase " . I thought that that was the way it is supposed to be. I think Showcase should be left for the " best " shots not the " ok " shots . But then whos going to draw the line on Showcase and Snapshot? Im certainly not going to myself . I am here to learn and to see the " Great " work of other photogs. not to say whos style is worthy of the Showcase.
Thanks for reading ......... Shawn
..........
This is something that has annoyed me also. But at the same time I am very guilty of skipping past the lower quality shots without givng any negative feedback. I have wondered if we could utilise some sort of rating system to give extra feedback??? For example if I continually had my shots rated 1 star I would have to realise that they are not up to scratch...
I hate rating systems myself. I always get lousy ratings. People start looking for pictures they dont like just so they get the joy of humiliating each other.
We have photographers of many different levels on these forums. As long as the poster truly feels they are worthy of posting in the showcase forum then that is the only opinion that matters as to where it is posted from my point of view.
Hey Zig, thanks for having the courage to express your point of view. You're a valued member of this community so your opinion definitely counts around here.
I'm not sure what to say or do in this situation - let me just put a few thoughts down.
- I think rating is something we've discussed in the past, and most have felt that it wouldn't suit this board. However, if we all have come about to a different opinion, let me know - it's something I can look into.
- I feel that self-critique is a great technique, and something we all should practice. (as pointed out by matthew)
- On the contrary - many of us are at different skill levels, and one person's masterpiece may only be another person's snapshot. (as pointed out by craig)
Now that we are aware of the situation, perhaps we should just give that extra bit of thought as to where we post photos - remember we have 3 sections: snapshots, showcase and critique. We should use them according to how we feel about our shots.
Also, it's tempting to post every shot we take, but at the end of the day, I think viewers and the audience appreciate quality over quantity. I often see galleries of photos on the web, all filled with magnificent, beautiful photos. After viewing the first ten though, they all start to look the same and I lose interest - not because the photos aren't any good, but because I appreciate variety.
On the other hand, I really love browsing through those "best photos of 2006" that you often see on news sites, because you know each one has been hand picked, culled from tens of thousands of shots the particular photo journalist might have taken over the year...
All good points Jules.
I think in order to evolve as a photographer, we need to learn to critique our own photos. Once you do that, you are able to take better shots out in the field, as you start remembering things that other people have said about our previous work. If you are hearing the same critiques over and over about your photos, maybe you need to start thinking about whether you have taken it in or shrugged it off??
Don Schaeffer Wrote:I hate rating systems myself. I always get lousy ratings. People start looking for pictures they dont like just so they get the joy of humiliating each other.
I honestly don't think anyone here would get any joy out of humiliating someone else, its just not like that here. Personally, I don't see the point of critiquing someones photos if they are going to take it as a personal attack instead of what I intend it to be- helpful and honest critique.
Here's a constructive suggestion. If people like the idea, we can work out the logistics later.
How about another forum called: "My 10 best photos". Each photographer is limited to 10 posts. If you have posted 10 photos and you want to add another one - you need to remove one first. How's that for self editing? This way, you need only look at what each photographer has self-edited and considers their personal best - if you are pressed for time or otherwise unwilling to wade through the everyday output of the membership.
Everything else continues on as before.
Sounds like a good idea , almost like a gallery of sorts , but with comments ....
............ Shawn
I don't critique much in the showcase forum as I did not think it was a critique forum. I do feel that a lot of the shots there could go in the snap shot forum - but it is so subjective.
Hey, I REALLY like that idea Toad!!
Maybe we could have one thread per person with the person's name as the title of the thread and then it will be up to that person to take the responsibility of keeping to their 10 best photos (after all, if there are too many, people just won't keep scrolling down to keep looking, or won't wait for the page to load).
although that wouldn't really work for comments
hmmm....
I belong to a group with the same idea and I like it a lot... The thing is that we just have one picture in the group, so the number of members is the number of pictures. You are allowed to change your picture every now and then... the only rule is to have one at a time in the pool...
I like Schell idea of a thread per person, and for the pictures we are changing we could post them in a common gallery, so the people interested in seeing the pictures can see them there... we could just give a link in the first post...
I think the idea is great... May I suggest two forums? One for the "Top Ten" and one for the "Previous Top Ten". The idea is that when you replace one of your top ten pictures, the picture
and the comments could be moved to the "Previous" forum. You'd need to ask an admin for that, though.
If the comments weren't moved, you'd lose the connection between picture and comment when you replace them. Also, after a while you'd have to scroll far down to read the comments on the actual picture. Well, we could also just delete them. But then, if you have a comment like "this is professional timeless art and certainly the best picture I've ever seen" you wouldn't ever replace the picture just to keep the comment.
Quote:I don't critique much in the showcase forum as I did not think it was a critique forum. I do feel that a lot of the shots there could go in the snap shot forum - but it is so subjective.
I think Chris has summed up my own toughts on this subject.
On the subject of the top 10 why not use the GALLERY........make an album called MY TOP 10 you can then put a link in your sig with the last update date on it. You could then move you pics to Previous Top Ten album. Nothing else to do you can start now!! It would make use of the gallery and I would start to go in and check it to see the updates.
BTW someone has been spamming pics over there!!!
Russt Wrote:On the subject of the top 10 why not use the GALLERY........make an album called MY TOP 10 you can then put a link in your sig with the last update date on it. You could then move you pics to Previous Top Ten album. Nothing else to do you can start now!! It would make use of the gallery and I would start to go in and check it to see the updates.
I think the top 10 + link in the sig is a fantastic idea... then I started thinking too - that's what the gallery should be for, shouldn't it? I guess it's not as easy to use the gallery as posting in the forums, and same thing with posting comments and critique. Hm... let me know what you think - it's no biggie to implement either way.
Russt Wrote:BTW someone has been spamming pics over there!!!
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out - just cleaned up hundreds of them..