[DLSkirvin]

Ok, I know I don't usually post on here, But I'm here all the time just gathering all the great information that is posted, But I came across an article that intrigued me and was wondering if anybody has ever tried the BBF- Back button focus. this sounds like a really good idea but i'd like the hear if anyone else has tried this, and what they thought of it. Heres the article if you need more understanding ...
http://digital-photography-school.com/ba...ton-focus/

[EdMak]

It Works!! Ed.

[WesternGuy]

Ok, I know I don't usually post on here, But I'm here all the time just gathering all the great information that is posted, But I came across an article that intrigued me and was wondering if anybody has ever tried the BBF- Back button focus. this sounds like a really good idea but i'd like the hear if anyone else has tried this, and what they thought of it. Heres the article if you need more understanding ...
http://digital-photography-school.com/ba...ton-focus/

I first tried this about two years ago at the persuasion of Art Morris, when I was on one of his bird photography tours. I wish I had done it sooner. I now have all three of my digital cameras setup on BBF. I love the fact that I can focus on a part of my image and I don't have to worry about accidentally setting off the shutter while I am focusing with the shutter button. I would never go back to shutter button focus. It also means that I keep my focus if I let go of the shutter button. This was something that used to frustrate me - every time I let go of the shutter button, I lost focus and would have to do it again. With BBF, I do not have this problem, you set the focus and it stays where you put it until you change it. There are probably a lot of other reasons and a simple search with Google will probably give you lots of them. If you are thinking about doing this, then I would encourage you to try it. If you don't like it then you can always revert to shutter button focus.

WesternGuy

[DLSkirvin]

Thanks WesternGuy, I'm definitely going to try this . Just looking for any disadvantage to this. So far all I can see it's far better.

[Phil J]

I've done just this for a long time with my Nikon and the technique works very well.

Regards.

Phil.

[IainWilkie]

I have read numerous articles on bbf but still a bit dubious as to its benefits. Something that bothers me is for instance one of the benefits is you can focus on a point were something is going to happen, then you are ready to take the shot the instant the action you want happens .... Say a kiss at a wedding, as there will be no delay in focusing .... But what about optical stabilisation .... It still needs to kick in or you can still end up with a blurred shot. So in this instance I cannot see the benefit and indeed the half press focus and wait for that kiss seems to be the better option. I am using a nikon d7000 with the bbf assigned to the af/ae lock button.

[WesternGuy]

I have read numerous articles on bbf but still a bit dubious as to its benefits. Something that bothers me is for instance one of the benefits is you can focus on a point were something is going to happen, then you are ready to take the shot the instant the action you want happens .... Say a kiss at a wedding, as there will be no delay in focusing .... But what about optical stabilisation .... It still needs to kick in or you can still end up with a blurred shot. So in this instance I cannot see the benefit and indeed the half press focus and wait for that kiss seems to be the better option. I am using a nikon d7000 with the bbf assigned to the af/ae lock button.

Iain, you have raised a very good point that I really never thought about that much. I do a lot of my shooting from a tripod so IS is not a consideration. I just checked one of my cameras (Canon 1D X) that uses BBF, with a 24-105 IS lens and I can hear the IS working as I move the camera around, so I am guessing that with this combination, at least, IS is working. I will definitely be more aware of this aspect of BBF in the future, even if it is just to check to see if it is working.

I think this also raises the question, for me at least, how does IS work in this situation because there are two situations for IS. The first is where the lens is stabilized and the second is where the camera itself provides the stabilization. I don't think the second situation is relevant because it pertains to P&S cameras and I am not sure that you can change the focus setup for these. (Please feel free to correct me on this if I am wrong.)

The other thing is how the stabilization relates to the focusing of the lens. Does the lens know how it was focused - shutter button or BBF? I don't know the answer to that question. If anyone does, then it would be nice to know. Personally, I don't think it does. From what I have read, it seems that IS kicks in once the focus has been obtained and attempts to maintain the focus. If this is the case, then the lens doesn't care how it reached focus, only that it has. This would then suggest that BBF has no affect on IS.

Any other thoughts on the subject would be welcome. In the meantime, I will try and see what I can learn from some of the pros that I know who use it.

WesternGuy

[IainWilkie]

I have read numerous articles on bbf but still a bit dubious as to its benefits. Something that bothers me is for instance one of the benefits is you can focus on a point were something is going to happen, then you are ready to take the shot the instant the action you want happens .... Say a kiss at a wedding, as there will be no delay in focusing .... But what about optical stabilisation .... It still needs to kick in or you can still end up with a blurred shot. So in this instance I cannot see the benefit and indeed the half press focus and wait for that kiss seems to be the better option. I am using a nikon d7000 with the bbf assigned to the af/ae lock button.

Iain, you have raised a very good point that I really never thought about that much. I do a lot of my shooting from a tripod so IS is not a consideration. I just checked one of my cameras (Canon 1D X) that uses BBF, with a 24-105 IS lens and I can hear the IS working as I move the camera around, so I am guessing that with this combination, at least, IS is working. I will definitely be more aware of this aspect of BBF in the future, even if it is just to check to see if it is working.

I think this also raises the question, for me at least, how does IS work in this situation because there are two situations for IS. The first is where the lens is stabilized and the second is where the camera itself provides the stabilization. I don't think the second situation is relevant because it pertains to P&S cameras and I am not sure that you can change the focus setup for these. (Please feel free to correct me on this if I am wrong.)

The other thing is how the stabilization relates to the focusing of the lens. Does the lens know how it was focused - shutter button or BBF? I don't know the answer to that question. If anyone does, then it would be nice to know. Personally, I don't think it does. From what I have read, it seems that IS kicks in once the focus has been obtained and attempts to maintain the focus. If this is the case, then the lens doesn't care how it reached focus, only that it has. This would then suggest that BBF has no affect on IS.

Any other thoughts on the subject would be welcome. In the meantime, I will try and see what I can learn from some of the pros that I know who use it.

WesternGuy

Thanks for your reply Westernguy. I have been mucking about with this on my Nikon D7000 and found out that when bbf is assigned to the ae/af lock button on the back of the camera this does remove the focus from the shutter button. However, metering can be activated by either the bbf or a half press of the shutter, but IS is only activated by a half press of the shutter button. This means that you can do a focus by dabbing the bbf button, but you still need to half press the shutter for about half a second for the IS to kick in before pressing the shutter fully for the shot. To me this seems to go against the pros for bbf as you are as well do the focus on the half press if you need to spin up the IS before taking the shot.

[WesternGuy]

Interesting. I wonder if this is camera dependent, lens dependent or depends on the camera+lens combination? I will remember to watch for this "interaction" as I use my BBF on my combination of different lenses with the same camera.

I would hope that maybe others would add their experience to this discussion.

WesternGuy

[WesternGuy]

Iain, I have done a bit of checking and I think that IS will operate regardless of whether or not you use the shutter button or BBF. Remember that IS is only to stabilize the camera to prevent blurring caused by a shaky hand, because if the subject moves as the shutter is snapped, then IS will do nothing to stabilize the resultant image. If you remember the slowest speed that you can shoot at is the inverse of the focal length of the lens allowing of course for the sensor size. For example, a 100 mm lens on a full frame cameras will require a shutter speed of at least 1/100 second to avoid blur caused by camera shake. If your camera has a C-sized sensor, then this shutter speed is 1/160 of a second = (1/(100 x 1.6). The idea behind IS is to allow you to shoot at 1 or 2 (maybe 3) stops slower than you would be able to with conventional lenses. For example, with an 100mm IS lens, you should be able to shoot at perhaps as low as 1/25 second or maybe even lower depending on the lens. As well, IS only really works for static subjects, so if the subject is moving and you are panning, e.g., birds in flight,, you will probably have IS turned off. Some of the newer lenses allow you to have an IS mode that is strictly for panning.

To go back to your example, if the kissing subjects happen to move as the kiss begins and your shutter speed is not fast enough to catch the movement at the moment, then you will have a blurred image regardless of whether or not you have an IS lens.

Hope this helps.

WesternGuy.

[EdMak]

Is there a difference with IS, on the Lens, as opposed to on the camera body,as my Sony is? ?? Ed.

[IainWilkie]

Iain, I have done a bit of checking and I think that IS will operate regardless of whether or not you use the shutter button or BBF. Remember that IS is only to stabilize the camera to prevent blurring caused by a shaky hand, because if the subject moves as the shutter is snapped, then IS will do nothing to stabilize the resultant image. If you remember the slowest speed that you can shoot at is the inverse of the focal length of the lens allowing of course for the sensor size. For example, a 100 mm lens on a full frame cameras will require a shutter speed of at least 1/100 second to avoid blur caused by camera shake. If your camera has a C-sized sensor, then this shutter speed is 1/160 of a second = (1/(100 x 1.6). The idea behind IS is to allow you to shoot at 1 or 2 (maybe 3) stops slower than you would be able to with conventional lenses. For example, with an 100mm IS lens, you should be able to shoot at perhaps as low as 1/25 second or maybe even lower depending on the lens. As well, IS only really works for static subjects, so if the subject is moving and you are panning, e.g., birds in flight,, you will probably have IS turned off. Some of the newer lenses allow you to have an IS mode that is strictly for panning.

To go back to your example, if the kissing subjects happen to move as the kiss begins and your shutter speed is not fast enough to catch the movement at the moment, then you will have a blurred image regardless of whether or not you have an IS lens.

Hope this helps.

WesternGuy.

Cheers Westernguy,

It would therefore be a caveat of bbf that we should be have IS switched off perhaps when using bbf. Putting the IS issue aside, my other issues with bbf are ..
once focus is achieved and with everything being static and waiting for a shot it would be easy to knock the focus ring and hence loosing focus for the shot. Also if you were taking a number of shots and you had focussed wrongly but hadn't noticed, you end up with garbage. At least using the shutter focus these issues are pretty much avoided as you a re-focusing everytime before you take the shot.

[EdMak]

If on autofocus, then if you moved the ring, as you say Ian, then surely it would re focus on the subject, and allow shutter release. Or am I reading this wrong. Ed.

[IainWilkie]

If on autofocus, then if you moved the ring, as you say Ian, then surely it would re focus on the subject, and allow shutter release. Or am I reading this wrong. Ed.

Hi Ed,

No .. that is my point, when you press the BBF button the camera focuses, when you release the focus is now locked ... meaning when you use the shutter release no focussing takes place there. If in the interim you bumped the focus ring (if its a full time focus) this would change the focus that would not be corrected be the shutter press.

Iain

[WesternGuy]

If on autofocus, then if you moved the ring, as you say Ian, then surely it would re focus on the subject, and allow shutter release. Or am I reading this wrong. Ed.

If on autofocus, then if you moved the ring, as you say Ian, then surely it would re focus on the subject, and allow shutter release. Or am I reading this wrong. Ed.

Hi Ed,

No .. that is my point, when you press the BBF button the camera focuses, when you release the focus is now locked ... meaning when you use the shutter release no focussing takes place there. If in the interim you bumped the focus ring (if its a full time focus) this would change the focus that would not be corrected be the shutter press.

Iain

Ed, Iain is correct, that if you happened to knock the focus ring, then BBF will not refocus unless you pushed the button to which BBF had been assigned. Personally, I have never had any problems with this happening. However, if it did, I am sure I would notice that things were fuzzy in the viewfinder or on my Liveview. I suppose this is one disadvantage to BBF, but, as noted, not a problem for me.

WesternGuy

[WesternGuy]

Iain, I have done a bit of checking and I think that IS will operate regardless of whether or not you use the shutter button or BBF. Remember that IS is only to stabilize the camera to prevent blurring caused by a shaky hand, because if the subject moves as the shutter is snapped, then IS will do nothing to stabilize the resultant image. If you remember the slowest speed that you can shoot at is the inverse of the focal length of the lens allowing of course for the sensor size. For example, a 100 mm lens on a full frame cameras will require a shutter speed of at least 1/100 second to avoid blur caused by camera shake. If your camera has a C-sized sensor, then this shutter speed is 1/160 of a second = (1/(100 x 1.6). The idea behind IS is to allow you to shoot at 1 or 2 (maybe 3) stops slower than you would be able to with conventional lenses. For example, with an 100mm IS lens, you should be able to shoot at perhaps as low as 1/25 second or maybe even lower depending on the lens. As well, IS only really works for static subjects, so if the subject is moving and you are panning, e.g., birds in flight,, you will probably have IS turned off. Some of the newer lenses allow you to have an IS mode that is strictly for panning.

To go back to your example, if the kissing subjects happen to move as the kiss begins and your shutter speed is not fast enough to catch the movement at the moment, then you will have a blurred image regardless of whether or not you have an IS lens.

Hope this helps.

WesternGuy.

Cheers Westernguy,

It would therefore be a caveat of bbf that we should be have IS switched off perhaps when using bbf. Putting the IS issue aside, my other issues with bbf are ..
once focus is achieved and with everything being static and waiting for a shot it would be easy to knock the focus ring and hence loosing focus for the shot. Also if you were taking a number of shots and you had focussed wrongly but hadn't noticed, you end up with garbage. At least using the shutter focus these issues are pretty much avoided as you a re-focusing everytime before you take the shot.

No, I don't think you would have to have IS turned off unless shooting from a tripod - personally, I really don't think much about it. As far as knocking the focus ring, I am not sure how you would do this, regardless, it has never been a problem for me. The thing I really like about the BBF is that unlike using the shutter button for focus (SBF), once focus is locked, you don't lose it until you push the BBF button again, whereas with the SBF, if you let go of the button, you lose the focus.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with BBF. Like so many other things where there are options, or alternative ways to do things, it either works for you, or it doesn't. It works for me and so I continue to use it. It has become a habit. If it ever got in the way of my image capture, then I would probably revert to the SBF.

WesternGuy

[IainWilkie]

Iain, I have done a bit of checking and I think that IS will operate regardless of whether or not you use the shutter button or BBF. Remember that IS is only to stabilize the camera to prevent blurring caused by a shaky hand, because if the subject moves as the shutter is snapped, then IS will do nothing to stabilize the resultant image. If you remember the slowest speed that you can shoot at is the inverse of the focal length of the lens allowing of course for the sensor size. For example, a 100 mm lens on a full frame cameras will require a shutter speed of at least 1/100 second to avoid blur caused by camera shake. If your camera has a C-sized sensor, then this shutter speed is 1/160 of a second = (1/(100 x 1.6). The idea behind IS is to allow you to shoot at 1 or 2 (maybe 3) stops slower than you would be able to with conventional lenses. For example, with an 100mm IS lens, you should be able to shoot at perhaps as low as 1/25 second or maybe even lower depending on the lens. As well, IS only really works for static subjects, so if the subject is moving and you are panning, e.g., birds in flight,, you will probably have IS turned off. Some of the newer lenses allow you to have an IS mode that is strictly for panning.

To go back to your example, if the kissing subjects happen to move as the kiss begins and your shutter speed is not fast enough to catch the movement at the moment, then you will have a blurred image regardless of whether or not you have an IS lens.

Hope this helps.

WesternGuy.

Cheers Westernguy,

It would therefore be a caveat of bbf that we should be have IS switched off perhaps when using bbf. Putting the IS issue aside, my other issues with bbf are ..
once focus is achieved and with everything being static and waiting for a shot it would be easy to knock the focus ring and hence loosing focus for the shot. Also if you were taking a number of shots and you had focussed wrongly but hadn't noticed, you end up with garbage. At least using the shutter focus these issues are pretty much avoided as you a re-focusing everytime before you take the shot.

No, I don't think you would have to have IS turned off unless shooting from a tripod - personally, I really don't think much about it. As far as knocking the focus ring, I am not sure how you would do this, regardless, it has never been a problem for me. The thing I really like about the BBF is that unlike using the shutter button for focus (SBF), once focus is locked, you don't lose it until you push the BBF button again, whereas with the SBF, if you let go of the button, you lose the focus.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with BBF. Like so many other things where there are options, or alternative ways to do things, it either works for you, or it doesn't. It works for me and so I continue to use it. It has become a habit. If it ever got in the way of my image capture, then I would probably revert to the SBF.

WesternGuy

Hi again Westernguy,

I have checked and found that on my Nikon, the IS only activates on the shutter button and not on the BBF button, that is now a fact. This does mean that even using BBF, I really need to hesitate at the half press of the shutter if I want to use IS effectively which means it single shot context it's easier to use SBF. however I do agree that BBF has advantages but only if IS is off and I understand these advantages fully. Certainly for quickly switching from single servo mode to continuous mode. I also understand that it's down to what works for any particular individual. I am trying to give BBF a go but I still feel that this IS on/off is probably going to annoy me to the point I may just move back to SBF and perhaps use BBF as and when I feel it merits it.

[WesternGuy]

It is interesting that your camera's IS only activates when the shutter button is pushed. I will check mine again to see if this is the case, but it may take a day or so to get this done. I will definitely let you know, but the limited test I did with my 1D X suggests that it activates with the BBF. I assume that it would activate with the SBF as well. Maybe this is true only for certain lens/camera combinations - don't know. Thanks for checking and verifying that your IS only activates when the shutter button is pushed.

WesternGuy

[IainWilkie]

It is interesting that your camera's IS only activates when the shutter button is pushed. I will check mine again to see if this is the case, but it may take a day or so to get this done. I will definitely let you know, but the limited test I did with my 1D X suggests that it activates with the BBF. I assume that it would activate with the SBF as well. Maybe this is true only for certain lens/camera combinations - don't know. Thanks for checking and verifying that your IS only activates when the shutter button is pushed.

WesternGuy

Hi again Westernguy,

I had a search about some of the other forums regarding Nikon, and it does seem that others confirm what I have found ..... Eg
" If you want to use back button focus, you still need to half press the shutter button to activate the VR a couple of seconds or so before fully pressing the shutter button to take the picture. Otherwise the gyros won't be spinning at full speed and you might wind up causing the picture to be blurrier than without VR. "
But I do also note that Canons seem to activate it on either so it's all a bit camera dependent I think.

Iain

[EdMak]

Let the juices flow, take what comes, experience will tell you what is the best for your current situation. Ed.

[IainWilkie]

Back Button Focus .... Is it better ?

Not sure about the way this works for other cameras, but all of the following relates to the Nikon D7000.

To use BBF on the Nikon D7000 you can assign the AE/AF Lock button to be AF-ON via the setup menu. Once assigned this button will now only operate the AF when pressed and is now removed from the shutter. Whilst I have read and understood the benefits of BBF, I am still not sure if this is that much a better way of focussing over the normal half press shutter method. My concerns are as follows.

If you are using image stabilisation (VR on the Nikon), I have confirmed that when configured for BBF, this still ONLY operates on a half press of the shutter button and NOT on the BBF button. This means that when focussing using the BBF button there is no VR active. I am not sure if this has a detrimental affect on focussing. Now because VR is only still activated by the shutter button, after focussing you still need to press the shutter button half way for a second or so for the VR to engage before pressing the shutter button the full way to take the photo. In many ways in this scenario BBF is of no advantage over SBF as you can be focussing at the same time you are allowing the VR to stabilise.

Another problem I foresee is that once you have focussed with BBF if you are snapping away at the same subject (not changing camera/subject distance) you may be altering the zoom focal length for different framing, I am not sure if this might alter the focus, also it might be easy to knock the manual focus ring and hence end up with out of focus shots. Surely again you can eliminate this possibility of focus errors by using SBF.

I can see the benefit of BBF in things like landscape of still life photography where on wishes to establish an exact focus point and then take many shots without this focus point changing. However for the reasons above I am of the opinion that SBF is just as flexible and probably more fail safe with respect to focus than BBF.

Please note that all of the above only really relates to Single Servo mode, I am aware that BBF can be very useful in Continuous Servo Mode but this is a mode I rarely use so at the moment am unable to comment on at the moment.

[Freeman]

Just to say I found this thread highly interesting and helpful. I now plan to read my camera manual on BBF and give it a go....Thanks! Jeff