[Cailean]

I've been struggling with this revelation (pardon the pun) for a few weeks and I wondered if you folk think it's worth being concerned about.

Zondervan Publishing has the exclusive North American publishing rights for the NIV bible (among others). Zondervan is owned by News Corp. which is Rupert Murdoch's media empire. Also owned by News Corp. is the Fox Network and Fox News and everything Fox! A complete list of News Corp.'s ownership can be found at the Columbia Journalism Review website

Beyond my feelings that no-one should have exclusive anything over the Bible, I am troubled that the profits garnered from the sale of the NIV in North America go to News Corp. and Rupert Murdoch.

Thoughts?

[shuttertalk]

I think in principle, I have no qualms about exclusive rights as the authors have put time and effort into producing a translation and they should be able to (1) be confident that others can't copy and profit from their work and (2) receive royalties where due.


I think bibles these days - especially study bibles - have more content in them than just God's word - commentaries, devotions, study notes, maps, concordances -- all of which are rightfully protected...


I guess by commercialisation, the profits can be put towards improving the quality, content, presentation and other activities which would be hard to achieve without financial backing.

[samuel]

I am not so much worried about Christian organizations who by spreading the word of God through books, movies, music get to profit at the same time. Isn't this the way to fight those through media spread the culture of death and materialism ?

I think the issue here is not whether they are making money out of it or not. The issue (which i am most worried about) is if they are really teaching Christianity in the books and translated bible they are selling. If they are not (e.g. they "mellow" down the faith, writing only those teachings that would "sell"), then it is really only the bottomline that they are concerned about.

I am very cautious of the bible i read and commentaries as well. I do believe information is lost through translations. (This is also true in technology i.e. compare VHS, VCD and DVD format translations). Also, text is a very poor form of communication. I do believe in the infallibility of the bible. However, i also do believe that there should be an infallible interpreter. The bible should then be translated in the context it was written. "A text taken out of a context is a pretext" - (Christian Apologist). It's not enough to translate the bible to be easily understood by the present generation. At the same time, and most importantly, the intention/message of (Christ and the apostles) in writing the scriptures should be preserved. Translation of the original bible written in Aramaic, Greek, Latin is no easy task for one should be educated not only in languages but in the corresponding cultures and history of the people behind these languages.

This is my personal opinion coming from my experience in talking with japanese as well as a lot of Christians not agreeing though they are claiming that their arguments all come from the(ir) "bible".

domo arigato gozaimasu. ki o tsukete kudasai. dia ....

samueru morinesu

[Rufus]

Samuel.

I believe we are very fortunate to have you, Teddy, and one or two other well read and wise folks here.

Thanks for coming, please keep up your thought provoking, (and true), posts.

[teddyfingers]

Zondervan Publishing has been around as long as I can remember. They are well respected ad have been printing bibles for decades. They print all diffrent virsions of the bible. So they have exculsive rights to the NIV. Good business if you ask me. They ether upfonted the money to produce the translation or bought the rights. I don't care really. Just because a seculare company owns them is no reason to think something is wrong with the translation. Zondervan Publishing is a great asset to have. Why would you tarnish that asset by ticking off your target market by messing up the bible? Bad business.

Teddy

[Cailean]

I don't think I said that there is anything wrong with the NIV translation... it was done by the International Bible Society. My problem isn't even that Zondervan is owned by a secular company... I think my concern is that Rupert Murdoch's media empire is devoted to making money and controlling as much of the media as he is legally allowed. A biblical translation as ubiquitous as the NIV doesn't seem to fit. I'm not sure anyone should have the 'exclusive' pubication rights - except perhaps the IBS since they did the work.

Take the New Living translation, for example... Tyndale House publishers did the translation and so, naturally, they are the exclusive publishers. As an exclusively spiritual publisher, one can be assured that the profits gernered by Tyndale from the sale of their Bibles will be used to produce the next transaltion and other Christian texts. The same cannot be said for the NIV and Zondervan. I hardly think a shrewd businessman like Murdoch would allow a subsidiary to keep 100% of the profits earned from the sle of a book as widely published as the NIV.

Basically, I don't trust Rupert Murdoch...... If you want to learn more about him a Google search produced these: (I haven't read them all)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2162658.stm
http://www.woopidoo.com/biography/rupert-murdoch.htm
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp....F&b=122948

[de_axeman]

So... do we stop buying Zondervan products or what? Get pirated copies so no profits flow to Mr Murdoch's back pocket?

It's a shame that Bible(s?) have to be subject to commercial rules like publishing rights. Unfortunately, people still have to make money to support families at the end of the day. And some Bibles are not cheap ie. like the study bibles, or the leatherbound ones.... :/

[samuel]

Let us try to assume the worst case scenario to simplify the issue. (Me having no idea
about Murdoch)

Assumption 1. The translated bible and books he sells is true to Christian teaching and helps a lot of Christians in their personal relationship with God.

Assumption 2. Unfortunately, the profit from sales of this bible (highly profitable business) goes to "unChristian" activities (e.g. (maybe) production of pornographic movies magazines, advertisements that promote materialism).

FIRST QUESTION : Is it ok then to be in the business of evil and good at the same time ?

My ANSWER : No way. For Christ said, 'It is either you are with me OR against me.'
'You cannot serve both God and Mammon.'

SECOND QUESTION : How then do we respond to Murcoch's businesses.

My ANSWER : I believe in the saying "Do not throw the baby with the bath water."
I believe that all of us are not perfect - we have Godly qualities and evil qualities,
and we always pray that through God's grace, we could eradicate the latter. So we should both
1) encourage each other to do good and
2) correct each other with charity and humility.

Based on these

1) i think we should still patronize Murdoch's business to promote Christianity on the premise of assumption 1 - who knows, this maybe the only thing preventing him to be totally evil (again this is an assumption on his present state),

2) send him a letter (if one has concrete proof) to tell him the irony/conflict of his other businesses. "Be ready to give an apologia (or reason for your faith), with charity and humility ..." 1 Peter 3:15.

(Come to think of it, isn't this how Christ treated a tax collector and in so doing, the tax collector became his apostle ?)

MURDOCH'S Possible Response to action 2)

a. He realizes it and decides to be 100% true to Christian philosophy.
b. He ignores it.

If he chooses b, i will not be worried too much.
First, nothing that is evil will last.
Second, injustice/accountability cannot escape the eyes of God.
It's just a matter of time that those people helped by assumption 1 might notice this issue and do action 2.

"Charity that is not founded on truth and justice is faulty. Not to do charity is like
wounding God at the pupil of His eye." Padre Pio of Pietrelcina

Please pray for me. I will be in Japan from Feb 14 to 19. God bless u all.

[Cailean]

So... do we stop buying Zondervan products or what?

That's kinda where my thinking has been heading... I would much prefer to send my (and my church's) money to a Christian-only publisher such as Tynadale by buying New Living translations...

[teddyfingers]

Does that mean we stop buying Christian music from Christian record labels that are owned by secular labels? Word entertainment is owned by Warner music group. If I used that philosophy I would never by a Plant shakers CD again. Thus, denying my sell of some really good praise and worship. By not buying anything from Zondervan we will hurt our brothers and sisters that work for Zondervan a lot more than its owner.

We need to stop worrying about were the money goes. Proverbs says that "the riches of the wicked are laid up for the righteous". Listen to God let him decide what you buy and don't buy. Let him be in control. He is anyway. If he does not what you to buy something he will let you know if you are listing. Most times it is to keep us from making a mistake. We have better things to worry about then where the money is going. Like whether or not the person across the counter knows Jesus.


Teddy

[teddyfingers]

Samuel, it is good to have you here. I agree totally with your last post.

Teddy

[shuttertalk]

Good analogy, TF...

[de_axeman]

Well said TF.

[de_axeman]

I was also thinking that governments often give our grants to fund questionable things sometimes. Can I stop paying my taxes then?

Please?