[Pavel]

Yes, this is the same waterfall on Credit river near Toronto captured on the previous post, but without people this time. (Oh, and there is a slight difference in shutter speeds). Critiques please. This one is important to me, as I experimented a lot with post-processing. 1/2 sec f/16, ISO 100, 50/1.4 Thanks Pavel

[NT73]

The PP is what is troubling me in both your shots. Overnatural is a word I have coined.
A lot of HDR stuff gives me the same feeling.

[Pavel]

Help me out NT. I am not sure I understand. Are you saying that I overuse the sliders and push too far with colours, contrast? That all things in nature appear exagerated? This is potentially a very valuable feedback to me NT. Please elaborate a little. Pavel

[NT73]

For my taste yes. Maybe not yours though. Everyone to his own.
But if I take a waterfall I expect it to look like it was when I saw it. Not as I would like it to look like unless I was doing it for a graphic exercise. Certain things come across good with saturation but not all things.
I found in both your waterfall shots, the top of the fall looked like something made of psycadelic blue plastic.
Sort of 60's flower power.
You know that if you took 50 people, you would get a different answer from each one (if they were honest)
But now I must retire. 2.16 am is kind of late. :|

[enviroguy]

Aha! Same waterfall with the famous "soft silky" look. (You know I'm not a great fan of that.) I guess it wasn't possible to have the people there enjoying the cotton candy. (Sorry!) The slow shutter speed did a fine job here, but the photo really needs a secondary point of interest. The falls just overwhelms the shot. I feel the crop is too close or that a wider shot may have have benefited the picture.

Regards.....Dennis

[Pavel]

Thanks Dennis for comments. I agree the photo is too close cropped. I was determined not to reach into my camera bag and try out the new 50 mm. Since it is effectively a 75 mm in terms of viewing angle and there was no place to back up, I had to swallow my pride and take out a zoom or to be stubborn and stay with the 50. You know me, so it is obvious what argument won. Nobody here commented that the shutter speed was too slow and 1/4 sec would have been better. I had to go into a lot of trouble to et some fibre into water. I will repost a 1/4 sec, which is better in this respect. Pavel

[matthew]

A photographer I admire has told me - several times - a story about one of his early instructors' lessons, which was to put a piece of tape with WAITT written on it across the back of his camera. It's hard to do with digital bodies and their crowded control panels, but the basic idea holds true: before taking the photo, ask yourself Why Am I Taking This?

When he sees one of my photos and tells me "Wait", I know it's not because he needs longer to look at it. He says it when I've underachieved in some way - I hear it a lot - and produced a photo that's essentially a record shot and doesn't add any of myself to the composition. And I have to say that I feel the same with these waterfall photos. They're something that everyone takes, but I've yet to see a breakthrough. So in the sprit of friendly cooperation, I have to ask - why were you taking these photos, what were you trying to express, and how can you use your subject to better express your theme?

I agree the photo is too close cropped. I was determined not to reach into my camera bag and try out the new 50 mm.

If you can't be with the lens you love, then love the one you're with...

[Pavel]

Your comments are very good. Why? Well, during 90 minutes walk one way on a hot day (forgetting to bring water and both me and my wife started out thirsty), I did not see anything in these fields of relentlessly green, tall vegetation struck me as a good photo opportunity. The main atraction of the park, the falls were craftily blocked by fences (about 100 m away from the river) and tall trees along the river, so that you could only see a snipet. We came to a smaller fall, which was accessible. It was obvious that we must turn around soon and walk almost the same way back. It was this fall or nothing at all. I love water, I love falls and I would like to learn to photograph them better. Also falls are hard to predict, because it is hard to predict patterns that you will see at fast and slow shutter speeds. I also wanted to know, if 50 will give me greater detail than the zoom. This was it. Now you know. No real artistic attempt. However, it is a good set of photos to learn techniques on, because this is a subject I will come back to often. I love watching and photographing water. I want to learn how to photograph it well. This is my rambling and disorganised reply. My reflection photos fall in the same category. I am trying to understand what works and what does not. Pavel

[matthew]

I love water, I love falls and I would like to learn to photograph them better. Also falls are hard to predict, because it is hard to predict patterns that you will see at fast and slow shutter speeds. I also wanted to know, if 50 will give me greater detail than the zoom. This was it. Now you know. No real artistic attempt. However, it is a good set of photos to learn techniques on, because this is a subject I will come back to often. I love watching and photographing water. I want to learn how to photograph it well.

Sorry it took me a while to come back to this - I wasn't trying to imply that there are bad reasons for taking a photo, or that every photo should be conceived of as a future masterpiece. Technical trials and practice are vital, especially with a new lens.

But with all of that said, I actually find very little in this to critique from a technical point of view. How strongly feathered the water is is an artistic and personal decision; I happen to like it but all that really matters is your own preference. Using a polarizer would give you some control over the reflection at the top of the falls, but it's pretty much an all-or-nothing choice (I think...?) and the brightness serves to emphasize the shape in the rocks while the water's still smooth. Compositionally, I'd like to see the orphaned green leaves cloned out - the ones on the left edge that are getting caught in the sun - and the right side cropped in a bit so that there isn't a bright line leading out of the frame.

The colour in the waterfall is a little odd. I'm seeing blue, magenta, and green. I'm not sure if this is a result of variable lighting or post-processing, but there are some tricks to get rid of it. In Lightroom, drop the Vibrance slider and use the saturation control if you need to bring the leaves back up. The HSL panel is really good at selective control over individual colours as well, so that could target just the foliage to keep it where you want it. If you're using LR2, then a selective edit of the saturation in the white area of the waterfall may also work. And I suppose there's always Photoshop, although I try not to use it and don't have any particular suggestions for it.

[Pavel]

Thank you Matthew for very extensive, detailed comments. They are very valuable to me. I did use polarizer. I almost always do and I also remeber having trouble unscrewing polarizer from the ND filter (Yes I did rotate the ring). I agree on cloning out leaves. I am not sure I know which bright line needs cropping out on the right. Are you refering to a stream of water? That could be cloned out, I think. The top of the fall is probably a result of the overuse of vibrance - a frequent fault of mine - I miss areas where the effect is overdone. I used selective green adjustments in photoshop - I am trying to use PS in the place of LR, otherwise I will never learn PS - and some knowldege of PS is one of my objectives. I do some basic adjustments in LR and than finish with more detailed work in PS.

I think your comments are very useful and valid, including the strong hint that this is not a masterpiece of even an attempt for being creative. I am instinctively a technical person, raised by scientists and having a career as a scientist and creative artistic ideas are not instictive or intuitive for me, yet that is precisely why I have a strong desire to learn as much as possible, knowing that I will never excel in this. For me it is baby steps and a hope that in a month time I will be better than I am today. Creativity is not everything however, I beleive. In order to be effective creatively, I feel I also have to gain some technical skills, so that advances I make in one area helps me pull up in the other.

Thank you again Matthew for taking time to give me detailed comments. I really appreciate them. With me, it is no need to be to soft-spoken. I know you well enough to know that whatever you write is meant to help and I respect your views. Thank you. Pavel