[de_axeman]

Even if Rufus did have stats to back up his 'most', 47% of all stats are made up anyway...

[shuttertalk]

Well said, Axeman...

I guess in the practical sense, bringing tithes or offerings to the local church would better equip the "church organisation" to do its work too. Unfortunately in this day and age, everything depends on money - without such resources, the "church organisation" would be very hard pressed.

[Toad]

Hmmm. Getting in to this discussion late, I realize...

This whole microchip thing being the sign of the beast - I don't get it.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that I choose a microchip implant to use in place of money...how does that make me evil?

I don't see how it is any different than money - which is also just a symbolic convenience that we use so that we don't have to pay for a new car with 20,000 chickens.

Does anyone here feel that using money is a bad idea? or a credit card? Are we eviler people because we do that? If not, how does an implant make us evil?

Sorry if I am missing something here...are the implants supposed to have some extra programming to make us comitt crimes or something?

People are so afraid of technology.

[Rufus]

AAAAaaaaaarrrrrrroooOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Rufus]

Anyoldhow.......... Who said anything about money making you evil here? Who said that the mark made you "evil"?

No one.

See?


So there!

Innit?


This is Jamie's fault.

Innit.

[Rufus]

People are so afraid of technology.


Nonsense man. It's the use it's put to that's scarey.

[Toad]

The Divine Punishment
Rev.14:9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand...

OK - so according to this passage, it isn't really the mark at all - it is the fact that one "worships" the beast and bears his mark. Seems to me pretty clear that the worshipping is the important bit here and not the mark - which is pretty much incidental - a token of loyalty so to speak.

So given that...why worry about credit chips etc? Doesn't sound like if you accidentally take the mark and don't actually worship the beast, you have anything to worry about.

Which makes the whole argument that the sign of the beast is a credit card or micro chip or whatever pretty much inconsequential. If you are not a bad guy (i.e. worshipping the beast), go ahead and use your credit card all you like.

[Rufus]

That's fine an' dandy.......................

Provided you can define "Worship" exactly. Or, come to that, the finer points of idolatry.

[Toad]

Well - I certainly don't define worship as going to church. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that organized religion holds a monopoly on being kind and leading a lifestyle that can be defined as "good" - quite the contrary in many cases.

I don't believe that there is a right and a wrong way of worshipping - if we define worship as a lifestyle rather than a ritual. I listen sometimes to Christian radio and there is so much intolerance towards other religions that I am greatly saddened by it - even towards the Jews! I mean - really - wasn't Jesus Christ a Jew? I am sure that He would define Himself that way exactly. Is a Muslim or a Buddhist that conducts himself morally going to be denied an afterlife other than Hell? You would think so to listen to some.

No - my personal belief is that worship is tied up with personal morality - and the golden rule - Do unto others etc. - says it all. I don't even believe that a person needs to profess a belief in a higher deity to be good and moral.

How can man hope to understand or even comprehend the nature of God? That is arrogance of the highest order. Our current "understanding" is based primarily on partisan Medieval translations of Hebrew and Aramaic texts that themselves may not be first hand.

My definition of worship is no doubt significantly different than those who believe that worship is primarily a function of religious rituals. My belief is much more inclusive as it accepts moral people of all faiths - and as such - is actually a much more Christian definition than that of many of those who profess themselves to be Christians.

I do not mean to offend those of you with other beliefs - but as you asked how I define worship...

[Cailean]

I'm with you Toad. While I do worship in the traditional sense, I do not at all hold it up as exclusive to all other forms of woship. I know lots of folks who live Christian lives (moral, etc.) without recognizing themselves as Christian precisely because of the narrow-minded (hateful?) views of contemporary conservative Christianity.

[Rufus]

Jesus said, "Do not let anything trouble your heart. You believe in God and you must believe in me also."
John 14:1
John 3

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[1] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son (Hebrews 1:1,2).


"I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me."

"Jesus is the only One who can save people. His name is the only power
in the world that has been given to save people. And we must be saved
through Him!" Acts 4:12 NCV

[slejhamer]

Golden rule - isn't that a variation of the Rule of Thirds?

Sorry, just playing devil's advocate ... well it's a photography site after all!

[shuttertalk]

Hey all, we can all be persuasive AND tactful at the same time...

I know this is an important topic to some, but please maintain the mutual courtesy in these forums...

We're supposed to be Christian after all

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."

[shuttertalk]

Can I also please remind everyone of our forum rules:

We also want this to be a pleasant experience for everyone, so by participating in our forums, you are agreeing to abide by these rules:
# Be nice, friendly and polite to one another.
# Recognise and respect that others may not always hold the same view as you.
# Any thoughts are valid - feel free to share and post anything.
# No question is too dumb; we're all here to learn.
# Try to post in the correct forums. Non-photography related discussion is more than welcome in the "General" forums
# Please refrain from swearing, using explicit language and posting "questionable" photos. If unsure, link to the photo and put a clear warning.
# Most of all, have fun!

[shuttertalk]

This topic has been moderated to remove offensive posts. My humblest apologies to everyone who was offended on behalf of Shuttertalk and its moderators.

This topic will now be closed.