[Rufus]

So, most Christians over here are convinced that it's a microchip implant.

Are you?

[de_axeman]

I think it's the credit/debit card (or any card that you use to access funds)... But it could very well evolve into a microchip implant...

It's sobering to contemplate that our money could all vanish into thin air if someone did something drastic like sneak an EMP bomb into the heart of our city, or took out our powerplants...

[Rufus]

Hmmmm,

So if you think it's a card, have you refused them?

[shuttertalk]

I thought it was a a card/chip/implant that had all your info on it - like ID, medical records, credit card info, etc. so you don't have to carry your wallet around anymore... haha, or maybe i'm confusing it with a time magzine article i read..

[StudioJ]

I thought organised religion was the mark of the beast? I mean just look at how many the Roman Catholic church has killed in its name over the past millenia.

How much of the worlds largest Christian religion goes against that which is written in the Bible?

[Rufus]

I thought organised religion was the mark of the beast? I mean just look at how many the Roman Catholic church has killed in its name over the past millenia.

How much of the worlds largest Christian religion goes against that which is written in the Bible?

No, it is an actual thing. People who refuse it are effectively outlaws.
As for wars and killings, that's true of many religions, yes. It's also true of politics, materialism in general, and ego.

How much goes against the Bible? WHOOOO!! That's a big one. Maybe the right question is, "who can declare themselves perfect?"

I have problems with Roman Catholicism, but rarely with it's people. Mind you, the RC's are not encouraged to read the Bible, I'm told. That seems odd....... :/

[StudioJ]

Interesting, so who is meant to have these implants? Is it something that has popped up recently?

I don't have a problem with most religions, I'm not much of a believer in people being sheep however that has nothing to do with a flock but just people as a whole.

As for RC/C people well I don't have a problem with them either, I married one and I'm rather partial to Catholic girls.

'nuf said!

[Rufus]

Oooo errrrr!!!


so who is meant to have these implants?

Now, no one knows that they.it is implants. That's just the popular theory.


Copied from net:
When he appears he will order every soul on earth to receive his mark, his identifying sign or signature in their foreheads or right hands. No one will be able to buy and sell without first accepting the mark! This will be economic sanctions on a scale the world has never known.

The Mark of the Beast some say is:

An invisible, coded tattoo, discernible only by high-tech equipment or some kind of X-ray.
The diabolic brand mark of an evil spirit.
A computerised society in which all business transactions will be done by credit cards.
A silicon identity chip inserted under the skin. etc. etc.


Rev.13:16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


The Divine Punishment
Rev.14:9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev.16:2: And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

[de_axeman]

Copied from net:
[i]When he appears he will order every soul on earth to receive his mark, his identifying sign or signature in their foreheads or right hands. No one will be able to buy and sell without first accepting the mark! This will be economic sanctions on a scale the world has never known.

I just had a thought when I read the above quote. The words 'foreheads' and 'right hands' just seemed to say to me 'in thought and deed'. It may be that the 'mark' is not a physical mark, but a spiritual one? I dunno... I'll have to go back and read the word and do some pondering...

[StudioJ]

So supposedly money is the root of all evil?

How does that explain tithing then?


"The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows" - I Timothy 6:10

[de_axeman]

Money is not the root of all evil. It's the 'love' of money.

And tithing is non-negotiable. (Malachi 3:8-12)

8 "Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
"In what way have we robbed You?'
In tithes and offerings.
9You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
10Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,"
Says the LORD of hosts,
"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.


11"And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,"
Says the LORD of hosts;
12And all nations will call you blessed,
For you will be a delightful land,"
Says the LORD of hosts.

[StudioJ]

I'm not sure how anyone can pay a tithe to a church, in the renewed covenant the original Mishkan from the Torah became a new temple of "living stone" the lives of which were all part of the body of the Messiah.

This temple in Jerusalem still referred to as "Har haBayit" literally translated as "Mountain of the House". I find it hard to believe that the thousands of believers that met for the Pentecost as described in Acts 2 actually met in a house or temple as such.

Unfortunately the doctrine of the NT has unequivocally banished all that existed in the OT with the forming of Christianity and the New Church.

[Rufus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3697940.stm

Please read.

[Rufus]

Have you read the above microchip link????


JAMIE:

What does this mean????????????

Unfortunately the doctrine of the NT has unequivocally banished all that existed in the OT with the forming of Christianity and the New Church.

[Cailean]

So, most Christians over here are convinced that it's a microchip implant.

Three questions:
1) How many is 'most'
2) Convinced by whom?
3) On what evidence?

[Rufus]

Three questions:
1) How many is 'most'
2) Convinced by whom?
3) On what evidence?


Most. How long is a piece of string? Most = In my experience of meeting people from various churches, a percentage above 50. What do you think most means?

Convinced by themselves.

On lack of other evidence, and the prevalence of hi-tech innovation.

Do you have a problem with my comments?
I'm always happy to back up my statements if you doubt my sincerity.

[Rufus]

Sorry Cail. That was a bit aggressive.
I've had "one of those days".

:|

[Cailean]

Do you have a problem with my comments?
I'm always happy to back up my statements if you doubt my sincerity.

Not at all, I was just curious if there was a documented 'movement' or if this was based on your observations or perhaps something you read or saw on the telly... It's the first I've heard of it (microchips) since 'Gattaca' came out and I've never heard the Christian perspective as the 'Mark'. One of the prices you pay for being a social scientist is not being able to totally trust observations about human behaviour without external evidence.

Sorry Cail. That was a bit aggressive.
I've had "one of those days".

No problem, we all have 'em!

[slejhamer]

Another interpretation, less literal (and a bit more thought provoking, in my opinion), and worth reading all the way through:

Mark of the Beast

[Rufus]

One of the prices you pay for being a social scientist is not being able to totally trust observations about human behaviour without external evidence.


Fascinating comment.

Once again, sorry about the teeth! :o

[Rufus]

Another interpretation, less literal (and a bit more thought provoking, in my opinion), and worth reading all the way through:

Mark of the Beast

Some fine thinking there, which requires study and prayer. As Christians we MUST understand all we can IMHO.

[StudioJ]

Oh so thats what its all about! Some people worry too much

Rufus, what I meant was that for thousands of years they lived by the OT and until the events that occured around the time of JC and the coming of the NT and it became Messianic belief system (I'm generalising).

What I was trying to get at was is should there even be a church to begin with? Sorry to confuse you, it sprang more from tithing than the mark of the beast.

[de_axeman]

Hi StudioJ - just to explain why I tithe, and more...

I tithe because I love God and want to obey him. I know many struggle with the concept of giving 10% of what you earn away. (pre-tax! because it's the 'first fruits' of your labour) But I can honestly vouch for the fact that God enables me to do MORE with my 90% than I could do with my 100%.

God has always provided for my wife and I, and we have never lacked any good thing. Ever. He honours his promises to us and rewards our faithfulness - he is no man's debtor.

Besides, the earth and all that is in it belongs to God, and we are but stewards, so giving him back 10% (or more) of what is His anyway is not so big a deal...

Now I acknowledge that there are unscrupulous people/organisations that put themselves out to be the 'church' and as 'Christians' and then rob others blind, but that is not God's fault, and it certainly does NOT absolve the believer's duty to tithe.

[Cailean]

One of the prices you pay for being a social scientist is not being able to totally trust observations about human behaviour without external evidence.


Fascinating comment.

Once again, sorry about the teeth! :o

Yeah, I was in 'academic mode' at the time... critical social theory, etc. What I meant was that we often use terms like 'most' when we mean 'many' and even then it often means 'many people I know' which, really, isn't very many at all! So I was just trying to gauge your meaning of 'most' I guess.

[StudioJ]

So tell me Cailean, what does your tithe? Is there a benefit?